In all honesty I was (I still am ) having a lot of problem adjusting my braking with my '05 RS. I've been tracking since '97 and all of my previous cars (TypeR, E36 M3, S2K and '03 EVO) all have ABS and the '05 RS was the first and the only one w/out.

The first time I took my '05 RS out to the track I was struggling with braking. Oh my god, it was soooooo ugly. I was locking up my tires left and right when trying to get a good feel on the brakes while practicing threshold braking. I put so many flat spots on my RA1 they were going like "thump-thump-thump-thump" on the front straight....

But my biggest problem during that track weekend with my RS was that I couldn't trail brake with it. I always ended up locking up my inside tire when I trail brake. It was very frustrating and I just can't seem to find the sweet spot with my brakes where I can rotate my car w/out locking up the inside tire.

The way I look at it is that ABS IS and CAN be a big advantage at the track unless you can brake like PROs. There is no question in my mind that an ABS EVO will out brake the RS every time at the track.

As of now I'm still posting slower lap time with my '05 RS compare to my old '03 even though the RS has front LSD and is faster on the straight..

Oh if you were wondering what happened to the trail braking..... Well, I simply just gave it up..... I went back to the basic and try to finished all the braking before turn in right now.

It seems like this is the only way for me to "not to" flat spot my race tires.

Tires are expensive, and I'm a cheap bastard on the budget.

 

I'm surprised by the guys who refer to using the ABS as "cheating". Is using the turbo boost also cheating?

The Evo can, using its ABS, outbrake just about any production car ever made (including the Ferrari Enzo, according to Road & Track). Like one of the other respondents said: if you're not using it, you're giving up time to the people who are.



That's the popular theory. But try it going into a corner on a track in the real world and you will very quickly be introduced to "trail-braking". Right before you spin.

 

You have ABS, correct? use it to its max ... it is the drivers job to bring out the full potential of the car!
ABS is known to kick-in in higher speeds as well, depending on how hard the brake pedal is pressed ...

 

Trail braking is an art and allows a skilled driver to often post better lap times than without trail braking. Avoiding the spin can be challenging but a little countersteering helps. So, ABS enhances the advantage trail braking provides. ABS also facillitates left foot braking as "pedal feel" is irrelevant: you just mash down the brake and ABS takes over (no need to carefully monitor wheel lockup-skidding). All of which shows that having ABS doesn't remove driver skill from the equation of achieving fast laps, it could be just the opposite.

 

Personally I prefer my non ABS 04 RS. I was not going to buy the lancer because I wanted one with A/C and no ABS. For a while there it seemed like that would never happen. Therefore I didn't even read about the car in the magazines anymore. (Just couldn't take it ) Then I happened to find out that the 04 RS came with 3 torque manipulating diffs, no ABS, and A/C. The hunt was on! I have been to 2 track days with the car and several autocrosses.

Despite what I suspect to be a bad master cylinder causing the passenger front tire to always lock first, I have stormed the tracks. Closing on other Evo's and oddly crushing an STI, I thought it would run me down.

For me the art(fun) of driving is all in the braking and turning. Getting on the gas is easy(and fun too!) But not as fun and challenging as that threshold brake down to the apex the just the right rotation.

I have heard from one lancer driver that when you trail brake an ABS lancer into the corner and the inside rear lifts off the tarmac, the ABS shuts off as it doesn't know what to do. What have you experienced?

 

I've experienced the exact same dilemma. I had an 03 evo 8 for 2 seasons and just loved it. I sold it and purchase an 05 RS without ABS. First time on the track I locked up the brakes, flat spotted brand new tires (less than 1500 miles on the car ) and skid off the track...lesson learned the hard way I guess. The 05 does rotate better through the turn than my 8 did but the non ABS will be a learning experience for me in future events.

 

Whenever I tried to trail brake into a turn and the ABS will kick in, probably due to locking of the rear inside wheels. Or when I tried to brake very late into a turn. With stock brake pad, I didn't brake as hard since you can overheat the pad so the ABS kick in less. I am using Endless CCR semi-track pad and the ABS will kick in easily whenever I brake medium hard.
If anyone is using track pad, your ABS will get busy since you can brake a lot harder.

 

I was using Hawk Blues in front & DS2500's in back all day yesterday at PIR with really heavy braking all day, trail braking in almost every turn. I never once activated ABS. My rotors were blue and my brembos are even more brown, so yes I was heavy on the brakes.

 

It's easy to track in an RS without ABS. Just brake a little earlier. It's also easy to trail brake in the RS, but it in most cases it will just slow you down. Hit the brakes before the turn and then get right back on the gas.

 

I agree that once you get a feel for the RS it actually has the potential to steer and brake equal if not better than an VIII. However, if all of your previous experience lies with an ABS assisted car then a learning curve will exist. I tend to learn the hard way more often than not.. .

 

You said it. EVO is a cheat car.

 

Care to share your secret on trail braking in the RS? (or non-ABS car for that matter)

And how is trail brake slowing you down?

Agree, going back to the basic is the only way to drive fast in a non-ABS car.

 

I think everyone posting about ABS has it confused with EBD. ABS = unpredictable vibrating application of the brakes, EBD = effortless trail braking because of brake force proportioning. I think you guys need to clarify exactly what you are doing, because somehow I doubt you actually are talking about using ABS trail braking into a turn as your brake pedal is vibrating and your suspension is unsettling itself in a herky-jerky attempt to regain traction.

 

There's no mystery to trail braking. You just continue with a little bit of brake into the entrance of the turn, and there is an inverse relationship between steering and braking input. The more you steer, the less you brake. It can make for smoother entries into turns than scrubbing all the speed off in a straight line and then shifting, turning and hittin the throttle all at the same time, which can unsettle the car. However, the current wisdom (from John Mueller, btw) is that in an EVO, trail braking just slows down your laptimes.

 

I think most people know what trail braking is, I think the point people are trying to make is that it's harder to do in an RS than an ABS-Equipped version. However, ABS equipped cars have Electronic Brakeforce Distribution, which I think is more of the reason it's easier to do than the actual ABS system helping in any way.

I don't think you can say yay or nay to trailbraking just because one person has more or less luck with it, it's all about your personal driving preference. There are a few turns that lend themselves to trail braking at my local track, a few that don't, and a few that could go either way. It also depends on your car setup. If I had some muellerized JICs under my car, I might not feel the need to trail brake. Right now it seems like the fastest way around certain turns for my current setup. It's mostly sharp turns after straights that benefit me, and I can't get nearly as much rotation if I do all my braking before I turn in. Just remember though that NONE of the turns lend themselves to trail braking when it's raining out