New DOT R-compound choices
I can see the point of having too much tire on a long road course. The time you would make up in the corners with a wide tire would not make up for the time lost on the straights due to drag and friction and slower acceleration.
From an autocross standpoint, though, so far bigger has proven to be better. Most of the top EVOs in the country run a 275 or 285. You gain more in the corners with the huge grip than you lose on the straights. The reason some have talked about using a narrower tire in the rear is not to reduce friction or weight, but to get more heat in the tire on a 40-60 second run.
For what it's worth to those looking for a long lasting high performance tire, I have 12 autocrosses, 20 1/4 mile runs, and about 20,000 miles on my Azenis and the inside edge has just smoothed out. If I ran less negative camber on the streets they probably would have lasted another 10,000 miles.
EVOlutionary
From an autocross standpoint, though, so far bigger has proven to be better. Most of the top EVOs in the country run a 275 or 285. You gain more in the corners with the huge grip than you lose on the straights. The reason some have talked about using a narrower tire in the rear is not to reduce friction or weight, but to get more heat in the tire on a 40-60 second run.
For what it's worth to those looking for a long lasting high performance tire, I have 12 autocrosses, 20 1/4 mile runs, and about 20,000 miles on my Azenis and the inside edge has just smoothed out. If I ran less negative camber on the streets they probably would have lasted another 10,000 miles.
EVOlutionary
I can see both arguments for bigger tires. On an autocross though, where I plan on spending most of my competition time, I think bigger is better. Drag isn't an issue. I am aware that I will need bigger rims. I'm just curious how a 275 Azeni 615 compares to a 245 or 235 Toyo RA1. I think they should be pretty similar, but I'd be able to get more miles out of the 615's.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 14
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From: LA
Originally Posted by Vishnu_Evo8
the nitos are trash, the avons are decent, and the hankooks wear too fast... the Ra-1 would be the perfect tire if it wasnt for the fact that they have a soft sidewall. Other than that they are simply amazing in terms of raw grip and longevity.
Where did you buy the Nittos from? I'm actually looking to try them out...
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 23
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Having compared Nitto NT-01's, RA1's, Pilot Cups, and Hoosier VRL slicks all at the same tracks several times let me tell you the assessment on a few of these folks make is wrong.
Here is plain facts for several tracks I run and comparative times (many same weekend and swaped to compare)
RA1's were unshaved as were PSC. Each pick up about .5-1 second when lower tread or shaved.
Roebling Road 1:18.4 (Hoosiers) 1:21.3 (NT-01's) 1:22.5 (ra1's) 1:23.2 (PSC)
VIR Full 2:06 (H) 2:11 (NT) 2:12.8 (RA) 2:14.1 (PSC)
Several of these are mupltiple times and an average of best 5 lap times.
For my suspension setup the hooosiers were to much tire and would be quicker with a better setup.
Nitto's are new compound (same company as Toyo by the way) and they wore well. They also work in any head range and don't loose much when they get cookin hot either. Starting with less tread though may only get 15-20 sessions out of them.
RA1's - best predictable tire of any of these. Can last 35 sessions and drive to events.
PSC's - suck in cold. Unless it is hot they will be scary slick and basically like driving on ice. And hot I mean at least 75 degrees and up. they like lots of camber. Now once really hot they wear like iron and stick great. But the cost makes them a I will never buy again item. Other choices are just better and work in cold and hot and are quicker.
Hope that helps folks.
The above times are over literally 3 sessions minimal on each (slicks) and more than 20 sessions on the nitto's and RA1's.
Here is plain facts for several tracks I run and comparative times (many same weekend and swaped to compare)
RA1's were unshaved as were PSC. Each pick up about .5-1 second when lower tread or shaved.
Roebling Road 1:18.4 (Hoosiers) 1:21.3 (NT-01's) 1:22.5 (ra1's) 1:23.2 (PSC)
VIR Full 2:06 (H) 2:11 (NT) 2:12.8 (RA) 2:14.1 (PSC)
Several of these are mupltiple times and an average of best 5 lap times.
For my suspension setup the hooosiers were to much tire and would be quicker with a better setup.
Nitto's are new compound (same company as Toyo by the way) and they wore well. They also work in any head range and don't loose much when they get cookin hot either. Starting with less tread though may only get 15-20 sessions out of them.
RA1's - best predictable tire of any of these. Can last 35 sessions and drive to events.
PSC's - suck in cold. Unless it is hot they will be scary slick and basically like driving on ice. And hot I mean at least 75 degrees and up. they like lots of camber. Now once really hot they wear like iron and stick great. But the cost makes them a I will never buy again item. Other choices are just better and work in cold and hot and are quicker.
Hope that helps folks.
The above times are over literally 3 sessions minimal on each (slicks) and more than 20 sessions on the nitto's and RA1's.
Originally Posted by ratt_finkel
Not even close.
The hooiser AND the V710 are in a class of their own. I'd say they are an honest 1 second or more faster on a 60 second autocross course than any other r-compound. What that translates to on a track, I have no idea.
The hooiser AND the V710 are in a class of their own. I'd say they are an honest 1 second or more faster on a 60 second autocross course than any other r-compound. What that translates to on a track, I have no idea.
Originally Posted by sb31767
Having compared Nitto NT-01's, RA1's, Pilot Cups, and Hoosier VRL slicks all at the same tracks several times let me tell you the assessment on a few of these folks make is wrong.
Here is plain facts for several tracks I run and comparative times (many same weekend and swaped to compare)
RA1's were unshaved as were PSC. Each pick up about .5-1 second when lower tread or shaved.
Roebling Road 1:18.4 (Hoosiers) 1:21.3 (NT-01's) 1:22.5 (ra1's) 1:23.2 (PSC)
VIR Full 2:06 (H) 2:11 (NT) 2:12.8 (RA) 2:14.1 (PSC)
Several of these are mupltiple times and an average of best 5 lap times.
For my suspension setup the hooosiers were to much tire and would be quicker with a better setup.
Nitto's are new compound (same company as Toyo by the way) and they wore well. They also work in any head range and don't loose much when they get cookin hot either. Starting with less tread though may only get 15-20 sessions out of them.
RA1's - best predictable tire of any of these. Can last 35 sessions and drive to events.
PSC's - suck in cold. Unless it is hot they will be scary slick and basically like driving on ice. And hot I mean at least 75 degrees and up. they like lots of camber. Now once really hot they wear like iron and stick great. But the cost makes them a I will never buy again item. Other choices are just better and work in cold and hot and are quicker.
Hope that helps folks.
The above times are over literally 3 sessions minimal on each (slicks) and more than 20 sessions on the nitto's and RA1's.
Here is plain facts for several tracks I run and comparative times (many same weekend and swaped to compare)
RA1's were unshaved as were PSC. Each pick up about .5-1 second when lower tread or shaved.
Roebling Road 1:18.4 (Hoosiers) 1:21.3 (NT-01's) 1:22.5 (ra1's) 1:23.2 (PSC)
VIR Full 2:06 (H) 2:11 (NT) 2:12.8 (RA) 2:14.1 (PSC)
Several of these are mupltiple times and an average of best 5 lap times.
For my suspension setup the hooosiers were to much tire and would be quicker with a better setup.
Nitto's are new compound (same company as Toyo by the way) and they wore well. They also work in any head range and don't loose much when they get cookin hot either. Starting with less tread though may only get 15-20 sessions out of them.
RA1's - best predictable tire of any of these. Can last 35 sessions and drive to events.
PSC's - suck in cold. Unless it is hot they will be scary slick and basically like driving on ice. And hot I mean at least 75 degrees and up. they like lots of camber. Now once really hot they wear like iron and stick great. But the cost makes them a I will never buy again item. Other choices are just better and work in cold and hot and are quicker.
Hope that helps folks.
The above times are over literally 3 sessions minimal on each (slicks) and more than 20 sessions on the nitto's and RA1's.
Evolved Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 535
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From: Dallas
Originally Posted by trinydex
the problem is both those are autocross tires, the v710 is even a tire of choice for some autocross series... what that translates to on the track... i don't think you run the autocross spec hoosier at the track... the heat specs are just different.
Seriously, the Kumho's take heat well. They can be used very successfully as a track tire. If you're a noob and are overdriving everywhere. Then yes, expect them to wear fast.
Originally Posted by nils
I picked up a couple seconds a lap (3.1 mile) going from RA-1's to Nitto's.
I like them and intend to keep using them.
Think "888's".
n
btw - I used to LOVE my RA-1's.
I like them and intend to keep using them.
Think "888's".
n
btw - I used to LOVE my RA-1's.
I check their website and 245/45/17 isn't the idea size for our car imo. Or maybe you are running 275/40/17?
Originally Posted by sb31767
Hate to admit it on this forum but that was all in a 2003 Z06 Vette.
I don't think my evo on hoosiers could get close to an 18......I would hate to crash my car trying. 
Rsr14,
How fast did you get around Roebling with your Hoosiers? Or better question, how much time did it knock off your lap compared to your stock tires?
Also, how fast did Leh get in his STi? Do you know what suspension goodies he has on his car? He was very fast when it was pretty much stock at Roebling last January. I had the silver Evo there. Me and you talked quite some time.
How fast did you get around Roebling with your Hoosiers? Or better question, how much time did it knock off your lap compared to your stock tires?
Also, how fast did Leh get in his STi? Do you know what suspension goodies he has on his car? He was very fast when it was pretty much stock at Roebling last January. I had the silver Evo there. Me and you talked quite some time.