Autocross Tips??
Autocross Tips??
I searched around and there are a lot of random threads but nothing consolidated that discusses things that are important to do or not do when autocrossing. (Like proper cornering lines etc). I also would love to see recommendations on mods... but lets not get in to well the strut bar doesn't do anything why bother... just say what you have, and why you like it. And whether YOU felt that it was a better improvement than something else you have done!
Thanks All!
Thanks All!
I don't know that much for one.. and am new to the sport... but what I am intending to do as far as my car for autocross...
I did exhaust and intake... just open the engine up a bit.. and am running synthetic which helps just a touch.
Am going to better tires (am in a debate between buying 16s or 17 inch Enkei RS5 rims though... want the show.. but also want the go)
I am also going to lower the car with springs, put on better brake pads. But am in a debate about strut bar or rear sway bar.. as I can't do both or I get bumped to the next points class... unless I trim points off on my rims (like going with the 16s and 195s I'll have enough points to do both.. but with 17s and 205s I can't)
I'll have to see how she handles when I go for the first time in about a month here and see what changes I need to make.
Driving wise... I do know that it is very important to maximize the "straightness" of all your curves by choosing the best controlled line that you can.
You are also supposed to practice threshold braking.. (either be on the gas as much as possible or be on the brakes as much as possible without locking them at all, no coasting or debating)
More Input Please!!!!
Later All,
Steve
I did exhaust and intake... just open the engine up a bit.. and am running synthetic which helps just a touch.
Am going to better tires (am in a debate between buying 16s or 17 inch Enkei RS5 rims though... want the show.. but also want the go)
I am also going to lower the car with springs, put on better brake pads. But am in a debate about strut bar or rear sway bar.. as I can't do both or I get bumped to the next points class... unless I trim points off on my rims (like going with the 16s and 195s I'll have enough points to do both.. but with 17s and 205s I can't)
I'll have to see how she handles when I go for the first time in about a month here and see what changes I need to make.
Driving wise... I do know that it is very important to maximize the "straightness" of all your curves by choosing the best controlled line that you can.
You are also supposed to practice threshold braking.. (either be on the gas as much as possible or be on the brakes as much as possible without locking them at all, no coasting or debating)
More Input Please!!!!
Later All,
Steve
Car mods for autocrossing
Steve, I have been autocrossing for almost 5 years now (just started to get serious last Summer though), and feel that I can give you some good advice. However, keep in mind that (1) Everybody has an opinion, so you should take mine and many others' and choose the best for you, and (2) I'm still learning too:
My Mods:
- Motegi MR12 rims (16x7) with Falken Azenis tires (215/45/16)
rims and tired are the #1 most important component in autocrossing. Azenis is very populer in the street tire classes.
- RMR intake with custom ducting
an intake gives the most hp per dollar spent
- RRM K-bar strut bar
I do believe that this stiffened the ride a bit
Suspension: I recommend against just getting lowering springs. Although a lower CG will help a little, good shocks/struts will do much more for you than just putting lower springs on. Since I won't cut corners, I am keeping my stock suspension while I save up for a truly decent set. After hearing a fellow racer's religious experience with Ground Control today, I am currently comtemplating 3 set-ups:
- Tein SS coilover kit (very adjustable height and dampening, about $1200 plus install)
- Ground Control adjustable spring with Koni shocks (adjustable height and dampening, about $900 plus install)
- Koni shocks with Progress springs (can only adjust dampening, but more cost effecient at about $750 plus install)
Strut/Sway Bars: A bigger rear sway bar and/or rear strut bar will stiffen up the rear end, but I am saving this for last as the tail likes to slide around enough as it is. Maybe with tuned suspension, the rear will grip more and then I can tighten it up.
General: From the sound of it, you race under a different association than SCCA, so I don't know all of the rulles for mods. As for me, each category dictates which parts can be upgraded, modified, replaced, etc. The following are other mods that I feel would help a lot, although I won't be able to do all of them and remain in my class (maybe I'll go to Street-Prepared next year)
- limited slip differential (very helpful, but not allowed for me)
- exhaust (find one that won't lose torque)
- header (I won't because of smog laws in Ca)
- bored throttle body (a few more horsies, but not allowed for me)
- chip (advanced timing, full/air ratio, etc.)
- brake pads (more grip, better braking control)
- slotted/cross drilled rotors (more grip, keeps brakes cool, although they really don't heat up much in a 60 second run)
- racing seat(s) (holds you in place, so you can focus on driving)
- racing harness (same reason as the seat)
My Mods:
- Motegi MR12 rims (16x7) with Falken Azenis tires (215/45/16)
rims and tired are the #1 most important component in autocrossing. Azenis is very populer in the street tire classes.
- RMR intake with custom ducting
an intake gives the most hp per dollar spent
- RRM K-bar strut bar
I do believe that this stiffened the ride a bit
Suspension: I recommend against just getting lowering springs. Although a lower CG will help a little, good shocks/struts will do much more for you than just putting lower springs on. Since I won't cut corners, I am keeping my stock suspension while I save up for a truly decent set. After hearing a fellow racer's religious experience with Ground Control today, I am currently comtemplating 3 set-ups:
- Tein SS coilover kit (very adjustable height and dampening, about $1200 plus install)
- Ground Control adjustable spring with Koni shocks (adjustable height and dampening, about $900 plus install)
- Koni shocks with Progress springs (can only adjust dampening, but more cost effecient at about $750 plus install)
Strut/Sway Bars: A bigger rear sway bar and/or rear strut bar will stiffen up the rear end, but I am saving this for last as the tail likes to slide around enough as it is. Maybe with tuned suspension, the rear will grip more and then I can tighten it up.
General: From the sound of it, you race under a different association than SCCA, so I don't know all of the rulles for mods. As for me, each category dictates which parts can be upgraded, modified, replaced, etc. The following are other mods that I feel would help a lot, although I won't be able to do all of them and remain in my class (maybe I'll go to Street-Prepared next year)
- limited slip differential (very helpful, but not allowed for me)
- exhaust (find one that won't lose torque)
- header (I won't because of smog laws in Ca)
- bored throttle body (a few more horsies, but not allowed for me)
- chip (advanced timing, full/air ratio, etc.)
- brake pads (more grip, better braking control)
- slotted/cross drilled rotors (more grip, keeps brakes cool, although they really don't heat up much in a 60 second run)
- racing seat(s) (holds you in place, so you can focus on driving)
- racing harness (same reason as the seat)
Last edited by urbanknight; Apr 6, 2003 at 07:24 PM.
Evolving Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 116
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From: Las Vegas
urban just wondering what class do you run in? i am currently running in the H stock. which limits you to pretty much no mods. the only things you can change are a drop in filter, cat-back exhaust, shocks, and street legal race tires. (just ran this weekend on my kumhos god damn that was fun 
) since i have gotten my kumhos i am actually beating some pretty fast cars, like a couple vettes, porches, and rx7's. the only advice i have for you is start off stock and mod your car as your driving skills get better. our cars are very unforgiving when you push it to far and that will teach you the limits of the car. (i have spun my car twice now becuase i pushed to hard. once on the stock tires and once today on my kumho's which where very cold) just going from the stock tires to the smaller and stickier kumhos i was able to drop 2 seconds off my times. i am now within a few tenths of beating the mini cooper that would always beat me buy 1-3 seconds on average. i would also recomend picking up the book called "secrets to solo racing" that book explains alot on how to take turns, how to late-apex, and how to threshold brake into turns. our cars have a lot of body roll through turns where i actually pick up the inside rear tire with the stickier tires. also i would suggest if you are going to buy a set of rims and tires for auto-x get a set of 14's like the es has with the same off-set as our oz rims so that you can have a smaller diameter tire. for instance i went from the stock 195/60/15 to a 205/50/15(with a 1/4" spacer to fit) which cut a total of 1 inch from the overall diameter which gave me about 50-60 revs/mi more. feel free to email me if you have anymore questions i love to help others out 
oh here is a picture from this past saturday
http://lvrscca.org/photo3/autox_r5/p...000030_jpg.htm
) since i have gotten my kumhos i am actually beating some pretty fast cars, like a couple vettes, porches, and rx7's. the only advice i have for you is start off stock and mod your car as your driving skills get better. our cars are very unforgiving when you push it to far and that will teach you the limits of the car. (i have spun my car twice now becuase i pushed to hard. once on the stock tires and once today on my kumho's which where very cold) just going from the stock tires to the smaller and stickier kumhos i was able to drop 2 seconds off my times. i am now within a few tenths of beating the mini cooper that would always beat me buy 1-3 seconds on average. i would also recomend picking up the book called "secrets to solo racing" that book explains alot on how to take turns, how to late-apex, and how to threshold brake into turns. our cars have a lot of body roll through turns where i actually pick up the inside rear tire with the stickier tires. also i would suggest if you are going to buy a set of rims and tires for auto-x get a set of 14's like the es has with the same off-set as our oz rims so that you can have a smaller diameter tire. for instance i went from the stock 195/60/15 to a 205/50/15(with a 1/4" spacer to fit) which cut a total of 1 inch from the overall diameter which gave me about 50-60 revs/mi more. feel free to email me if you have anymore questions i love to help others out oh here is a picture from this past saturday http://lvrscca.org/photo3/autox_r5/p...000030_jpg.htm
Although I still have a lot to learn myself, here are a few things I have learned from other drivers as well as my own experience.
Get the car ready:
- Take out all loose items so they won't fly around (depending on the rules and classes, the spare tire and/or interior parts, etc. can be removed as well to reduce weight)
- Safety: make sure the battery is secure, the wheels are on tight, the seats won't move or come loose, the brake pedal has good pressure, etc.
- Tire pressure: too much will make your car slide around like crazy, too little will roll onto the sidewalls under hard cornering. With my Azenis tires, I run about 30-45 psi with the fronts 3 psi more than the rears, depending on weather and track surface. you'll have to experiement to find the best combinations.
- Adjust seat: most people will race with the seat a little more forward and upright than they do for normal driving. The important part is that you can reach all the controls (clutch, brake, gas, steering wheel, shifter) easily and comfortably.
- Adjust anything else that should be different when racing compared to normal driving (this is for the more advanced cars with adjustable suspension, camber, timing, etc. etc. etc.)
Right before a run:
- If the car has been sitting for a while or has just had a run, re-check the tire pressure.
- put your helmet on (if required)
- buckle seatbelt, then if you have a normal seatbelt pull it tight and yank out to engage the locking mechanism. This will hold you in place much better, so you can focus on driving instead of staying in your seat.
While driving:
- Like you said, make every curve as straight as possible, usually connecting them (i.e. 2 sharp turns with a small straight in between driven as a long "S" turn)
- I am not too sure about the only braking hard or accelerating hard part, as I learned that sometimes there has to be minor adjustments to help keep your car on the desired path and speed. *one advantage of an underpowered lancer is that you can go full throttle with less chance of the erratic response I have seen in cars such as Vettes and RX7s.
- Look ahead - from what I am hearing, far ahead - and plan your route instead of looking where it's too late to adjust.
- In slaloms (if your association uses them) you should be aming for the second cone by the time you've reach the first. It may seem strange, but the car's reaction will make up for the difference.
- Most importantly, drive as smooth as possible. Abrupt movements will lose traction. My fastest runs are normally the ones that seemed and felt the slowest.
Other ways to improve:
- Attend racing schools. There are some geared towards autocrossing, and other kinds of racing schools that will sharpen your skills. I plan on doing a Solo2 school this Summer.
- Watch other cars and drivers, especially on a course you are about to race on. this helps you find the trouble spots on a course and to find the best lines around the turns.
- Talk to other drivers. Most of the top drivers have plenty of experience and advice to share, and they're usually friendly and willing to help beginners out.
- If possible, have a more experienced driver ride with you on some runs. They can coach you through the course and point out driving skills you need to improve upon.
I hope that helps some. Please keep us updated on your experiences. Good luck!
Get the car ready:
- Take out all loose items so they won't fly around (depending on the rules and classes, the spare tire and/or interior parts, etc. can be removed as well to reduce weight)
- Safety: make sure the battery is secure, the wheels are on tight, the seats won't move or come loose, the brake pedal has good pressure, etc.
- Tire pressure: too much will make your car slide around like crazy, too little will roll onto the sidewalls under hard cornering. With my Azenis tires, I run about 30-45 psi with the fronts 3 psi more than the rears, depending on weather and track surface. you'll have to experiement to find the best combinations.
- Adjust seat: most people will race with the seat a little more forward and upright than they do for normal driving. The important part is that you can reach all the controls (clutch, brake, gas, steering wheel, shifter) easily and comfortably.
- Adjust anything else that should be different when racing compared to normal driving (this is for the more advanced cars with adjustable suspension, camber, timing, etc. etc. etc.)
Right before a run:
- If the car has been sitting for a while or has just had a run, re-check the tire pressure.
- put your helmet on (if required)
- buckle seatbelt, then if you have a normal seatbelt pull it tight and yank out to engage the locking mechanism. This will hold you in place much better, so you can focus on driving instead of staying in your seat.
While driving:
- Like you said, make every curve as straight as possible, usually connecting them (i.e. 2 sharp turns with a small straight in between driven as a long "S" turn)
- I am not too sure about the only braking hard or accelerating hard part, as I learned that sometimes there has to be minor adjustments to help keep your car on the desired path and speed. *one advantage of an underpowered lancer is that you can go full throttle with less chance of the erratic response I have seen in cars such as Vettes and RX7s.
- Look ahead - from what I am hearing, far ahead - and plan your route instead of looking where it's too late to adjust.
- In slaloms (if your association uses them) you should be aming for the second cone by the time you've reach the first. It may seem strange, but the car's reaction will make up for the difference.
- Most importantly, drive as smooth as possible. Abrupt movements will lose traction. My fastest runs are normally the ones that seemed and felt the slowest.
Other ways to improve:
- Attend racing schools. There are some geared towards autocrossing, and other kinds of racing schools that will sharpen your skills. I plan on doing a Solo2 school this Summer.
- Watch other cars and drivers, especially on a course you are about to race on. this helps you find the trouble spots on a course and to find the best lines around the turns.
- Talk to other drivers. Most of the top drivers have plenty of experience and advice to share, and they're usually friendly and willing to help beginners out.
- If possible, have a more experienced driver ride with you on some runs. They can coach you through the course and point out driving skills you need to improve upon.
I hope that helps some. Please keep us updated on your experiences. Good luck!
Originally posted by TO_Lancer
there ya have it from the bro
brian is one the best in the autocrossing field
there ya have it from the bro
brian is one the best in the autocrossing field
Originally posted by YellowOZ03
urban just wondering what class do you run in? i am currently running in the H stock. which limits you to pretty much no mods. the only things you can change are a drop in filter, cat-back exhaust, shocks, and street legal race tires.
urban just wondering what class do you run in? i am currently running in the H stock. which limits you to pretty much no mods. the only things you can change are a drop in filter, cat-back exhaust, shocks, and street legal race tires.
btw, I am hoping to get the So Cali lancer crew to do a group drive to Las Vegas over the Summer. If I can have some of the race dates, maybe we could schedule that into the plans for that weekend.
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Evolving Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
From: Las Vegas
cool man! i just started auto-xing last october so things that i am doing in my lancer are awesome to me 
i can understand why you would have gone straight to that class. would you say for a beginner/new racer to start in stock instead of moding right away though? i have posted some links to video clips of my racing this weekend. they are all about 1-1.5 meg in size. some are a lil shacky do to wind but you can get the idea this past weekend was the first time to run on the kumho tires and it was crazy because they give you no warning to when you have pushed them a lil to hard(no squeak from the tires) and they also feel like you are floating becuase they are so smooth
http://www.phathosts.net/cbarth03/scca/2003/1st run.wmv
http://www.phathosts.net/cbarth03/scca/2003/2nd run.wmv
http://www.phathosts.net/cbarth03/scca/2003/3rd run.wmv
http://www.phathosts.net/cbarth03/scca/2003/4th run.wmv
http://www.phathosts.net/cbarth03/scca/2003/5th run.wmv
http://www.phathosts.net/cbarth03/scca/2003/6th run.wmv
oh yeah the blue subby that you see in the videos is my friends car and i beat him by a full second.
WRX
i can understand why you would have gone straight to that class. would you say for a beginner/new racer to start in stock instead of moding right away though? i have posted some links to video clips of my racing this weekend. they are all about 1-1.5 meg in size. some are a lil shacky do to wind but you can get the idea this past weekend was the first time to run on the kumho tires and it was crazy because they give you no warning to when you have pushed them a lil to hard(no squeak from the tires) and they also feel like you are floating becuase they are so smoothhttp://www.phathosts.net/cbarth03/scca/2003/1st run.wmv
http://www.phathosts.net/cbarth03/scca/2003/2nd run.wmv
http://www.phathosts.net/cbarth03/scca/2003/3rd run.wmv
http://www.phathosts.net/cbarth03/scca/2003/4th run.wmv
http://www.phathosts.net/cbarth03/scca/2003/5th run.wmv
http://www.phathosts.net/cbarth03/scca/2003/6th run.wmv
oh yeah the blue subby that you see in the videos is my friends car and i beat him by a full second.
WRX
Last edited by YellowOZ03; Apr 6, 2003 at 10:46 PM.
Originally posted by YellowOZ03
would you say for a beginner/new racer to start in stock instead of moding right away though?
would you say for a beginner/new racer to start in stock instead of moding right away though?
The tough thing for me in STS is that my region has 2 magnificent drivers who race in that category. Any guy who drives a naturally aspirated '91 Ford Escort 4+ seconds faster than all the modded WRXs and M3s has got to be a great driver. Other than that, STS tends to be a large category, since it defines most rice rockets on the street today. But that could be good, because all the newcomers with their Civics, Integras, etc. fill that field, so you beating the beginners makes you look even better, like me getting 15th in a field of 30, even though 5 of them didn't have a clue what they were doing (one guy got all 3 runs DNF because he ignored one slalom each time)
I'm registered for my first event... so looking forward to that on the 26th. I'll go with whatever mods I get in time for when I get there... I'm going to be lame for now and go with my "pretty" 17 inch rims I want with Yoko AVSES100's as I'm doing what I can to pinch penny's while pour the most I can into the car for 2200 odd dollars total.
I'm in good luck with the event I registered for as they have an hour of pre-race practice/instruction for novices. Before the races actually start.
The races are sponsored by the Midwest Sports Car Club, and yeah they do run slightly different rules and stuff from SCCA. They assign a certain number of points to each modification and then based off of that they put you in a stock, prepared, modified, or race ready class. And then the standard car class designation.
Thos videos were great... gave me a much better idea of the kind of turns and stuff.
Thanks for all the tips so far guys. I'm sure this should be really useful for everyone that reads it, and get people into what I hear is a really fantastic sport!
Steve
I'm in good luck with the event I registered for as they have an hour of pre-race practice/instruction for novices. Before the races actually start.
The races are sponsored by the Midwest Sports Car Club, and yeah they do run slightly different rules and stuff from SCCA. They assign a certain number of points to each modification and then based off of that they put you in a stock, prepared, modified, or race ready class. And then the standard car class designation.
Thos videos were great... gave me a much better idea of the kind of turns and stuff.
Thanks for all the tips so far guys. I'm sure this should be really useful for everyone that reads it, and get people into what I hear is a really fantastic sport!
Steve
Don't worry about the wheels. If I recall, those are light wheels anyway. Most of the Imprezzas are out there on Enkei RF-1 17x7.5 and that's the more experienced drivers. Besides, with the 17s, you'll have a nice stiff sidewall with the low-pro tires.
Any recommendations on camber or toe in for autocrossing? I'm looking to see what I should set my suspension at this year so that it is driveable/fine for every day but good for auto-x. I drive awfully hard daily anyway so I'm not hugely concerned about tire wear factors or so forth.
Thanks guys,
Steve
Thanks guys,
Steve
Evolving Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 270
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From: MD, USA
Woww, this is a revival of a nearly 1-year old thread, lol.
Camber is more dependent on tire choice IMHO; for example Hoosiers like more neg. camber than Kumhos. For the Evo, would recommend a mediocre front camber if your anti-roll bars are stock, may be in the -1.8 to -2.5 range. To my best knowlege you cannot go over -2 without camber plates on the Evo however.
If you have camber plates than try starting with a high number, adjust tire pressures, and then adjust camber according to thread heat.
For toe, my recommendation would be to start on the rear with 0.5 to 1.0; but that won't be too good for a daily driver. If you autox with daily driver, leave toe at 0 all around.
Camber is more dependent on tire choice IMHO; for example Hoosiers like more neg. camber than Kumhos. For the Evo, would recommend a mediocre front camber if your anti-roll bars are stock, may be in the -1.8 to -2.5 range. To my best knowlege you cannot go over -2 without camber plates on the Evo however.
If you have camber plates than try starting with a high number, adjust tire pressures, and then adjust camber according to thread heat.
For toe, my recommendation would be to start on the rear with 0.5 to 1.0; but that won't be too good for a daily driver. If you autox with daily driver, leave toe at 0 all around.
I run a Lancer and by the time auto-x starts I should be running new shocks or coilovers, front strut brace, rear strut brace, rear tie rod brace. I'm currently debating on getting a set of race tires. (Kumho Viktor's probably, or some Hoosier's) or running again on ES100's or GoodYear's new tire.
What I was thinking was probably 0 for toe all the way around and then -1 in the front and -.5 on the rear. I figure that would be good enough overall to be useful toward auto-x but not murder my tires too badly for daily driving.
This last season I ran a stock alignment pretty much which I believe was -.2 toe in the rear, something similar in the front, and then pretty much 0 on the camber all the way around. In that configuration I planed off the tires at an angle so badly that there is probably a good 1/16 or better difference in tread depth from inside (being thicker) to outside. So obviously negative camber would be good for me in some way as I did not wear even like I should have.
Sides.. why not resurrect a year old thread. It's almost time to start thinking about racing again. Only 4 months to the first race!
What I was thinking was probably 0 for toe all the way around and then -1 in the front and -.5 on the rear. I figure that would be good enough overall to be useful toward auto-x but not murder my tires too badly for daily driving.
This last season I ran a stock alignment pretty much which I believe was -.2 toe in the rear, something similar in the front, and then pretty much 0 on the camber all the way around. In that configuration I planed off the tires at an angle so badly that there is probably a good 1/16 or better difference in tread depth from inside (being thicker) to outside. So obviously negative camber would be good for me in some way as I did not wear even like I should have.
Sides.. why not resurrect a year old thread. It's almost time to start thinking about racing again. Only 4 months to the first race!
I would do as FSelekler recommends if you are putting camber plates in or use camber bolts to adjust the front end to somewhere around -1.8 to -2.5 but I don't know how much camber the Yoks like you are using. The rear has plenty of adjustment and I wouldn't shoot for more than -0.75 to -1.
If you know your alignment specs are good, then I would dial some toe-out on the front to help turn-in. I am guessing this is your daily driver too. I marked my tie-rod ends and the shafts so I can get some toe-out at events, usually about 1.5 turns from what is a little toe-in normally. If you forget to turn it back, you will be reminded once you get out on the highway as it gets darty fast.
Jason
If you know your alignment specs are good, then I would dial some toe-out on the front to help turn-in. I am guessing this is your daily driver too. I marked my tie-rod ends and the shafts so I can get some toe-out at events, usually about 1.5 turns from what is a little toe-in normally. If you forget to turn it back, you will be reminded once you get out on the highway as it gets darty fast.
Jason