It's a local auto-x club and there are no classes. They use an indexing calculation to help make it fair for everyone. For instance, I would get FTD but then only finish 10th-15th in total points, because the index is based off an average of your last 3 finishes.

The events usually have 80-85 cars.

 

Yes. There is only one class. This is not a SCCA event.

 

Doesn't local clubs have their own classes? Porsche club of america has about 30 different porsche classes. lol

272 setup at -3 cam gear setup + meth. What psi are you running? This seems to be something I could look into. Bigger Intercooler? Sorry if I missed all that.

Do you usually shift to third on some of the straights?

that sounds like you could actually redline the thing and if the course is long enough you could actually get into third with stock spool up.

I usually go with the porsche club, since they have a good course that Evo's could run, that Miata's don't like very much. ha.

 

Do you disagree with what Buschur said when he first tested the 280's and said they lost NO power on the low end and only gained power on the top end?? Either he was wrong or what you said above is incorrect.

EVOlutionary

*edit*

 

I do disagree that a set of 280s will make just as much low-end torque as a set of 264s. Even so, I don't know what part of my comment is incorrect. I said that "I wouldn't say" his setup is optimum for low-end/mid-range. Even if what Dave says is true in all cases, it doesn't mean this guy running 272s with -3/-3 is optimum, so then I still wouldn't necessarily be incorrect. I also didn't make a demonstrative statement, because I don't know for sure, since I haven't seen that exact cam gear setup.

I don't know what it means to run straight methanol to your primary injectors, but I can't imagine going through 2.5 gallons of meth in a "day" of autocrossing when a day consists of...about 4 minutes in 1st and 2nd gear. Some clubs get more runs, but unless they are all back-to-back, you can refill quickly and easily between sessions. If I don't use a full gallon in 25mins of boosting, it seems it would be tough to go through 2.5 gallons in 5 mins or so at much lower speeds in lower gears with less sustainable full boost. Don't you agree?

You deleted the portion that my 2nd paragraph was responding to...

 

Sorry, I edited my post. I re-read the thing someone posted about 100% MOH injection and I think he just meant using MOH in the alcohol injection system vs. water or windshield washer fluid.

Why do you disagree that 280's will make as much low end torque as 264's or 272's? Did you dyno test the different sizes back to back? Do you have dyno graphs to show this? Buschur has dyno graphs to show that the 280's do NOT give up any low end torque to the smaller cams. This info has been common knowledge for almost a year ever since his big "Dyno Numbers" tuning thread. Unless the person is running the stock MAF or Buschur was incorrect, the results say the 280's are the way to go.

As far as grammer goes - you can argue semantics all you want, but in this case "I wouldn't say" is the same thing as "I'm telling you". That is the way most readers will interpret your post.

EVOlutionary

 

No, i don't have the resources Dave has, so it makes more sense that his findings are more valid than my "beliefs," but at the many Dyno Days I've coordinated and run, the 272 cars had much different powerbands than the 264 cars. It was a pretty obvious difference where the power curves would criss-cross when overlayed. The 264 car would have more area under the curve until it got crossed by the 272 power curve at higher rpm. From there up, the 272s had more area under the curve. I haven't seen 280s in person, but it would stand to reason that they would be more severe than 272s.

I didn't know it was common knowledge that you make the same low-end torque with every set of cams. There are threads talking about picking 264s or hybrid 272/264 for torque purposes almost everyday. People don't pick 280s to build torque monsters.

 

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...ng+dyno+thread

If you missed this thread last year, David says in one post that the 272's do not lose ANY low end spool up over the stock cams, then he later says the 280's don't lose any over the 272's. I think someone looking at cams should look at the facts as tested, rather than another member's "beliefs" about what might be optimal.

EVOlutionary

 

I'm really surprised by your tone.

I told you that I have seen multiple cases of differing power delivery based on 264s vs 272s. Maybe there was no low end spoolup difference vs stock cams, but I'm not talking about spoolup. I'm talking about low-end and mid-range torque. When we would overlay the Dynojet runfiles for people with different cams setups, you could see the power curves crisscross. This was because the 264s made more power down low and less power up top, which is pretty standard for how the different cam durations work.

These were facts as tested on multiple dynos with multiple cars on multiple occasions. I don't know why you discredit those facts as just being my "beliefs," especially when they are the commonly-held beliefs of most anyone who discusses and chooses between different cam setups. I don't know what to tell ya, man, but that's what I've seen and that's what many many MANY other people have seen. I trust Dave with anything on my car, but I haven't seen dynograph overlays to show the exact torque profiles of different cam durations on the same car - I couldn't read through all 50 pages of that thread. Do such overlays exist?

 

at autocross hp is less of an issue, grip is more of an issue. maximizing sus is more important, and brake fad is less of an issue. that said i know of carl's evo7 making about 350 to the floor. it's a monster. get you some nice tires!

at the road course all that hp is gonna need brakes and more grip with good tires that won't overheat.

about the cams... keep in mind dave's car is an anomoly... very misleading.

 

No one likes you...please go....go......................Gooooooooooooooooooo o...

 

Warrtalon may not make many friends on net boards, but I can tell you guys from personal knowledge this guy can race. He's the only person to give the M3 Street Mod guys in our region a true run for their money, even give them something to worry about. He put the hurt on some very well prepared cars with his (suspension wise that is) stock MR

 

I think I've been sort of misunderstood. For one. This is MY IDEAL setup (personal opinion). Its not for everyone. I also take the car for a ton of highway driving (including to and from work 7 days a week) so I need a good combination of hp and tq. Hence the straight 272s over a 272/264 combo. The reason for the cam gear setup is cause I'm a Vishnu guy and thats what he recommends for better midrange over the -4,-1 setup. And as for the 2.5 gallons of meth. It hasn't even been installed yet! I don't know where it came from that I said I got that purely for autox'ng. I said I wouldn't have to worry about running CAUSE I got a 2.5 gallon tank. I picked that size for convience of filling cause of the amount of driving I do. Makes sense now eh?

Go Canada!

 

Horsepower is used of course, who said auto-x doesnt need whp and only wtq is used? Definately you need to do some road race & auto-x before talking, how do you plan to keep up with faster cars in the straights if you dont have whp?

 

Randy man, can you read....... There is no keeping up with cars "in" the straights in autox..... TQ is a function of HP, or rather the other way around, the sooner you make HP the greater the tq value is. HP=TQ*RPM/5252, HP=TQ at 5252 this is why dyno plots always intersect at that point, we know HP is needed, just for autox, the nature of it, is making the most out of quick bursts of acceleration ususally out of corners, where TQ is what you want.

Scorke