yeah, != is software coding syntax for "not equal" in most computer languages

 

<offtopic>
For what it's worth, I think Auto-x is harder to do well than track hot-lapping. I have a hard time thinking that fast at Auto-X, and those cones always seem way too close together lol. My fastest corrected time is usually my first one, and as my times drop my penalties increase so I get slower as the day progresses lol. If there was a competition for killing cones I would reign supreme. That's the main reason I don't do it anymore. That and I hate standing around half the day chasing other people's cones. I love big high-speed tracks and driving more than a few seconds at a time myself, but it's outside of most people's budget. I'm not talking about just the entry fees, I mean the expensive things that get worn out as well. For instance, yeah the PCA club coming up is $125 (half a season of Auto-x fees BTW) but I am also getting $300 of new brake pads and $1,000 of new rubber. Not exactly a cheap hobby...auto-x is definitely more bang-for-the-buck.
</offtopic>

+1 Yeah don't go on the track with Auto-x oversteer settings, no joy in that.

 

uhhh...
worst case scenario
track (nasa)
4x 20min 80min seat time
$150
= $1.8/min

autox (scca)
3x 1min (average run) 3min seat time
$30
= $10/min

best case
track (speedventures)
7x 25min 175min
150
= $0.85/min

autox (pca*)
8x 1min 8min
$30
= $3.75/min


Above assumes costs for mods to car between autox vs. track is equivalent, e.g. seriously competative autoxers use Rcompounds too.
Yes i haven't figured in additional cost of gas for track events which are usually more expensive but there is no way autox is more bang for the buck... at least here in norcal. If your region is different please let us know so we can be jealous.

*in order to join with your evo, your other car has to be a porsche

 

Here's another waste of time (but cool looking) way to drift the backend of the car, the whoopee handle (aka the parking brake).

1. Brake normally
2. Once you've finished braking and initiated the first part of your turn in, depress the clutch
3. Initiated the "Twwwaaaahhhhhhhhh". It must be said like a stoned frat boy or that David Blain guy on South Park
4. Lightly pull and release the parking brake, let the clutch out
5. Counter steer and play with the throttle
6. End the "Twwwaaahhhhhhhhhh" once the drift is completed

The Twwwaaaahhhhhh is the important part of the drift and must be tapered off slowly (It works wonders when you have your mom in the car). Make sure step 1 - 4 is done before the apex of the corner.

 

There's no simple answer. Sounds like a combination of driving technique and car set up. You say "it's not a setup issue" but, frankly, I'm a bit skeptical...especially when you say "I'm putting in as much negative camber as I can." You don't need very much negative camber if the car is set up properly. With the correct spring rates, properly valved dampers, appropriate ride height and corner weighting, and fine-tuning of the bump and rebound settings, the car will corner without much dynamic camber change. You'll need considerably LESS static negative camber with properly set up coilovers as compared to stock.

The vast majority of coilovers I've seen on Evos and STi's have been pretty much slapped together. You ask the driver "how did you select your spring rates?" and they give you a blank look. 99% of the time, they've just used whatever generic springs came with the kit. And 99% of the time, the dampers have not been valved to match the springs and the weight of the car. And let's not even get into the finer points of setting bump and rebound for low and high wheel speeds. There seem to be quite of alot of "parts swappers" in the Evo suspension community...and very few genuinely knowledgable suspension tuners.

Emre

 

your worst case scenario does not figure in breakage....

Here was my first track day expenses.

track time 1x10min = 10 minutes seat time
registering = ~$150
Uhaul + trailer = $800
engine repairs after blown head gasket = $2500
rebuild turbo = $500
or $395/minute

This estimate does not include the costs for gas, brake pad, tires, and possibly rotors, would you care to update your estimates to include these consumables?

I think I made 8 laps, so I don't know, my instructor got more lap time in my DSM than I did. That day Fricken sucked...

Another worst case scenario would be totalling your EVO.... you can do the math on that one.

autocross != road racing... please don't even try to compare the two.

 

There's no reason to blow up your engine and turbo just because you're on a road circuit. I have god knows how many track days on my Evo and have yet to break anything at all. I'm even on the stock clutch at 36K miles.

Most of us who do lots of track days have our cars tuned pretty conservatively. I tend to turn the boost down to 16-17 PSI and shift a bit short of the redline when I'm on the track. If you take it easy and don't tune the car to make huge power (which is unnecessary anyway) then there's no real danger.

BTW, I'm not saying you tuned your engine too aggressively or anything. I don't know what happened in your case. But I think it's wrong to assume you're going to blow an engine and turbo just because you do a track day. You can have a hell of a lot of fun on the track and still go easy on the machinery.

Emre

 

Way to totally miss my point...entirely...

You could do the math for seat time on a per-minute basis and possibly make an argument, but that doesn't have anything to do with what I was talking about. Regardless of how many minutes you get in one day, it was still 1 event 1 day and that's how you remember it. You could almost fund a whole Auto-X season with the budget of one hard lapping day and all the wear & tear it brings...I was talking more like going to a track event every weekend as opposed to going to an Auto-X every weekend. Let me rephrase my argument...say you buy some A032R tires...they could either last 1-2 weekends of lapping days or 1-2 seasons of Auto-X...

When people say they do track events, they don't normally mean they go to 1 per year...

 

amen, other than that, i run 18 psi, but i run it to about 7600 or so.

Again, i go half race gas, half pump, and alternate 5 gal or so fillups. (you need it in this car).

Track days are a bargain, they really are. I've been to track days that cost $70, and ones where i've paid over $350. it's all in the location, and the setup.

Back on topic (kinda), you're 10x more likely to brake something, trying something cute to get around a 180, than you are just slowing it down and powering out of it.

 

That's an excellent point! I generally bring two 20 liter fuel jugs with me to an event and always make sure to keep the tank over the half-way mark. At the rate our engines chug fuel, and with all the lateral G's you can pull in the corners, it wouldn't take much to get some fuel starvation if you let the tank get too low.

Emre

 

Try this on for size....

Girlfriend
Clothes - $400
Make up - $100
Hair - $100
Shoes - $80
Dinner - $75
Horse Carriage Ride - $150

All for 15 minutes = $60.00 a minute.

But damn it is worth it! OK, it would be a better value if it was 30 minutes...

 

Let me rephrase your argument, say you buy a set of Toyo RA1s, you get 8-10 hard! lapping days including street miles (like on my last set). You buy a set of race brake pads they last you an entire year. Yes its doable, you just have to be smart about your tire choices, just like in autox.

There are other posts indicating that track events are more wear and tear on a car than autox events. Of course there is more wear, you are on track and driving/learning vs. waiting around all day. Average autox event is about 6 hours, you just waited 6 hours for 3 minutes!

As for the person who blew their engine at the track, well im sorry to hear that but that happens at autoXes as well. Car gremlins don't discriminate, they happened to find u at the track that day, very easily could have been the next autox event.

Yes, track events are more risk, but if you want to learn car control and handling then a track event time well spent & better bang/buck. One day at the track is like an entire season of autox as far as seat time. Im not saying car skills can't be learned at autox but bottom line is there is no substitute for seat time. If your region offers an autox school, i can definitly recommend that. SFRSCCA offered this usually towards the beginning of a season and its very educational. Why our region doesn't offer this more often is beyond me. In fact id easily pay 150+ for a smaller autox event with less cars but more track time.

ok onto the topic at hand.
summarize whats been said about turning, this applies to all corners, not just tight ones.
1. slow in fast out, brake before you have to turn. Debug: if when initiating the turn, the car continues in the same direction or is very hesitant to follow your orders, go in with less speed next time.

2. add a rear sway bar, set it on softest setting, try entering with slightly higher speed and/or apply gas earlier. if not satisfied, up stiffness

3. brake modulation, like at the track, brake hard early and release the brake smoothly. Reason for smooth release followed by turning is that the car doesn't like doing hard braking and turning at the same time. learning how smoothly to release and the timing of the turn is up to the driver. Ideally you should be abel to feel the car's weight shift. learning how much weight you can shift takes seat time.

remember you get three tries/day, enjoy

 

i've had that happen.

come in, let it sit, end up with just over 3/8 of a tank.

 

With an '03(no ACD) that is a great way to trash the center diff.

 

That's why they say most autoxers make good road racers, but most road racers rarely make good autoxers.