KZEVO

iTrader: (1)

Do i need to put the shims back on when i swap pads at the track?

If they're only for anti squeal then i don't care how much squealing i get at the track.

thanks

mayhem

iTrader: (9)

No. Don't worry about them. antisqueal lube will just burn off anyway.

Czubaka

iTrader: (11)

Well another thought is preventing heat transfer to the caliper pistions, which in turn would heat the fluid. Girodisc sells titanium shims for this (Ti is much less conductive).

KZEVO

iTrader: (1)

i think you have a point there...i guess i'll take the extra couple minutes to put those shims in...thanks

Warrtalon

iTrader: (6)

Good question and good answer. I'm going to start running dedicated track-only pads now that I actually know how to quickly change the pads (had never done this myself before recently), so this is something to keep in mind. I'll just re-use the shims on the track.

machron1

iTrader: (1)

LOL I don't think a thin steel shim is going to be much of a thermal barrier between the pad and the piston, but whatever floats your boat. On the track it seems like the pedal feel is better without the shims, and it's definitely a lot faster to swap pads at the track without messing around with the shims.

Czubaka

iTrader: (11)

Here's the link:
http://girodisc.com/catalog/product_...7734fccf7d1e3e

They have them for both front and rear.

While I'm not sure how much protection they'll give you, I've seen first hand the lack of conductivity ti has. I'm on an investigation where a rocket failed due to an engine fire (in the wrong spot). There are several ti lines where the end is melted/flowed ti (3100F+), but a couple inches away the ti isn't even discolored.

Also, racing brake sells steel shims that have a silicon coating.

Warrtalon

iTrader: (6)

My shims are ulta-lightweight, ultra-heat-absorbant, mega-noise-reducing Shims of the Galaxy.

machron1

iTrader: (1)

Those aren't the shims I was thinking of, I thought you were talking about the metal shims with the arrows in them and the tabs on the edges. Regardless, I know my Pagid RS14 pads are too thick to cram anything but pad in there with full thickness rotor. I don't think they were designed with shims in mind. Probably designed to give you the most pad thickness possible.

Czubaka

iTrader: (11)

Oh, ok. Yeah, these are the only shims I'm aware of...seeing as I haven't swapped the pads on the car yet; so I had no idea what else is in there.

machron1

iTrader: (1)

Stock there are shims that look like the ones from your link glued to the back of the stock pads, but they aren't made of metal, more like some organic substance. Between that and the pistons are angled metal shims that actually only halfway cover the pistons and I believe are there strictly for harmonic dampening. They are only about 1-2mm thick so I can't see them doing anything as far as blocking heat, but the ones you linked to may indeed block some heat, assuming you can cram them in there with your choice of pads and rotor thickness.

Czubaka

iTrader: (11)

Thanks for the info!

OT: Are the Pagid RS14's the yellow (race) ones? I'm in the market for new pads (fast road/some track days, but still streetable) and looking for opinions.

machron1

iTrader: (1)

No, they are the black race ones (not to be confused with the black street ones) and are more aggressive than all but the RS15 compound. They are absolutely not streetable and have an effective temp range of ~600F-1200F. I haven't tracked them yet, I just broke them in with (very loud, dusty, and tempermental) street driving on new rotors. I will test them out on the track on Monday if all goes well this weekend getting my new tires on and such.

I wanted to get the RS29 (new yellow) but I couldn't even source the RS19 (old yellow). I wanted them because they are endurance pads and will therefore last longer and be more rotor-friendly, and only give up 100F to the RS14/RS15. But since I couldn't get them, I didn't want to go less aggressive, so I went more aggressive with the RS14.

I recently heard the Brits often consider Ferodo DS3000 streetable! You might try those. I know DS2500's are streetable but they don't hold up on the track like true track pads. Anyway, PM me if you want to know more I don't want to totally hijack this thread.

KZEVO

iTrader: (1)

thanks again for the info guys.

Machron1- seems like you're running w/o the shims and haven't had much issues.

i'm going to try running without them and let you guys know. i can probably save a 1/2 hr+ by not trying to squeeze those suckers in with a new pad and new rotors and then making sure the brake pins go thru all tabs.

thanks

machron1

iTrader: (1)

No issues so far, and I've had my car over 2 years with multiple track days under my belt. The outer dust covers on the pistons burned off long ago, but they have yet to burn/bust an inner seal ::knock on wood::

Also keep in mind there is fresh Motul RBF600 brake fluid in my system at all times. I did have boiling/gumming problems with Ate Super Blue, but so have others, so I figure it's just the fluid. The Motul costs about 2x-4x as much as the Ate, but it works better on the track so to me it's worth it...it's a lot cheaper than losing brakes and slamming into a wall anyway...

I would be much more concerned about the condition of my fluid than the shims, but that's just me. I doubt the factory ones block much heat, and as for the noise, braking aggressively from really high speed doesn't normally cause much noise even with track pads...but you'll be squeeling like a stuck pig when you are staging and putting around the paddock area. Also, even with DS2500 pads they squeel like hell without tons of goopy anti-seize compound, and unless you plan on spending ANOTHER hour at the track smearing that stuff on everytying in the morning...not to mention being dirty as hell before you go driving...I wouldn't even bother. The last thing I want to do that early in the morning while rushing to get through tech is muck around with my pads more than I have to. Hell now I just put them on a few days prior and drive around squeeling because I don't like expending all that energy right before I go driving, especially that early in the morning. I would rather just relax, get through tech, clear my head, double check the important things like lug nuts, tire pressures, hoses, etc.

Good Luck!