heeltoer

(crossposted from norcalevo.net, if you are in a different region let me know your experiences)
Hey all,

At the last NASA TT event (thill 11.11-11.12) every TT car underwent a tech where I revealed that my stock ecu was reflashed (dynoflash) and that I have made changes to the camber through the factory offset bolt (this setting is used to fix factory alignment issues). This was the ruling made by the norcal nasa tt director.
Basically this means that pretty much every evo that is even remotely touched will receive a +10 pts just by stepping into NASA TT. This automatically puts all evos into TTB and 06 MRs now have TTB +17pts.

Needless to say these are pretty disparaging rulings especially since
1. these modifications are part of the car from the factory and should have been considered as part of the base classing and
2. they have made it super easy to "cheat" since NASA isn't going to have the ability to check for factory ODBII code anytime soon.

If you were planning to compete in NASA TT next year please remember to get your evo teched at every event, or just assume your car is in one class above where you class it. For me Ill probably stay away from NASA since its beginning to smell a lot like SCCA.

Cheers,
-heeltoer

broeli

iTrader: (19)

I think you were unfairly given the points. You shouldn't get those points unless you have re-flashing ability at the track. If I remember correctly a reflashed ecu only adds +4 if it's not messed with at the track. The way I would decipher it is if you do/or have ability to make adjustments at the track..ie piggyback or reflash software/cable than it is +8. A one time re-flashed ecu that isn't messed with +4.
Have you been keeping up with the discussion of rules for next year? If not go to Nasa forums and check them out. It isn't looking good for us awd, turbo owners. A simple modded Evo might be bumped into TTU

broeli

iTrader: (19)

BTW, for anyone that is curious to see the current calculator for TT classes, here it is: http://nasa-tt.com/TT_Classer
It going to be changing in the next few weeks though.

992gnt

iTrader: (5)

If your car was re-flashed (tuned) why wouldn't you take the points? The rules are pretty clear on that, and it is 8 points. The camber rule is getting removed for '07, or so I hear. They are taking a very close look at the classing structure for next year, since turbo cars are so responsive to mods, and newer cars are so difficult to police ecu mods. A hp/weight ratio method has been kicked about, and personally I'm hoping that's the way they go.

Bimmubishi

iTrader: (3)

Our local club allows reflashing but not for increased boost levels. Timing advance and fuel optimization are allowed but no boost control from stock for a given class, here called Street Touring.

Seems like a nice take on the situation but it's hard to tell who's running stock boost and who's not.

johannes

iTrader: (5)

I just joined NASA last week to become TT qualified next year. Right now I'm in TTA. As I look at midwest track records, I don't see any Evos or STIs (just M3s and corvettes). Have the turbo awd cars even been that competitive in this class?
If they add points, I'd probably de-mod a bit to stay in TTA. It seems in TTU I would need some big power mods to compete (I only have about 290-300 to the wheels), especially at certain tracks. Either way, I am still very excited to join in the fun

DaWorstPlaya

iTrader: (31)

You should have only been charged +4 for you reflash and nothing for the camber bolts because it comes stock from the factory. Seems like he misunderstood what you said.

Reprogramable ECU like Xede, UTEC, AEM would be +8
If you didn't have camber bolts and added them it would be +2

May be you didn't do a good job explaining things to him?

Anyways the points are going to be changed next year, so who knows .... either way it will be interesting. NASA, IMHO is a much better entry point to going out on the track than the SCCA.

Barfly30

iTrader: (1)

There are EVOs that can be competitive in TTA. It would be a smart move to stay in TTA as long as you can, unless you want to drop $10k or more to be competitive in TTU. I'm currently in TTA, but hanging on by a 2 pt margin. Hopefully the rules will be friendly for next year.

Barfly30

iTrader: (1)

A very important thread to monitor for those with upgraded turbos:

http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=12027

I have a stock turbo, but Greg is getting fed up with the easy tunability/potential for cheating when running TT. Looks like he may come down hardest on TTA. TTU would be a nightmare to run with a stock turbo/stroker.

johannes

iTrader: (5)

Wow. I just read that whole thread. Hopefully, when the new rules come out I will still be in TTA. If not, maybe I'll stick with the Redline Time Attacks. I do not want to pay good $$ to get my butt kicked in TTU by cars with 350-500WHP (50 or more up on me). It seems to be very difficult to level the playing field. My car even has a 50lb sunroof at it's highest point Oh well. If I do qualify, I'll drive hard as I can no matter what the level of competition

Fireball

iTrader: (15)

Yeah, I posted in that thread already. I'm kinda worried about what new rules they are coming out with.

I really, really want to stay in TTA, and not move up to TTU.

CharlesJ

iTrader: (6)

Rule clearly state - reprogrammed Ecu Chip, reflashable computer, or aftermarket computer

Turbo car tuned at track +11

Turbo car tuned elsewhere +8


I dont know how there is any room for a different interpretation other than taking the points for that. On the camber issue though, thats seems wrong and I wouldnt want those points. However that would only drop you back to 41 which still leaves you in that class

heeltoer

Yeah if you added a reflashable computer. But keeping the car as it came from the factory means I added a reflashable computer? Why not assess this to everyone with an EVO? Or everyone with a reflashable ECU?

anyways, there might be resolution still, the camber rule is going away next year and supposedly there is going to be a more uniform ruling as far as ECU flashing.
http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=12168

Currently the ecu flashing rules feel like a bait and switch to me, why even bother with generic flash rule when obviously most cars fit into the +8. Part of the reason there are two rulings? Greg G. has an SRT-4 which no one has figured out how to reflash easily Obviously everyone else is fighting unfair and deserved +4.

For reference I could have easily kept my car inside TTB if the rules didn't want to confuse people.

Evo 03 GSR TTC**
DOTR +5
255 RA1 +0
B&B downpipe, ApexI NOIR +2
generic flash +4
Hallman MBC +4 (set at max of 20psi according to factory gauge)
added Helical Front diff from JDM 04 RS +1
B&B test pipe +1
RRE rear sway +2
Raybestoes pads +1
Cusco lower chassis bracing Type I+II +2
= 22 mod points

The MBC+4 and/or chassis bracing+2 can be easily removed to cover both camber and ecu ruling and id have a hard time imagining that seriously slowing the evo down.

hagakure

iTrader: (2)

I'm in TTA now with a few points to spare. I've done well, won the last norcal NASA weekend in TTA, also have a 2nd and 4th place on the year. I can say with CERTAINTY that I would not be competitive in TTU at all, even though I am as good a driver as the top few drivers in my region. One car is a griggs racing cobra that is 2900 pounds and has 550 HP....
NASA is clamping down on the turbos because of a few crazy cars like Robi's and the AMS car...those cars have easily 200+more HP than I do. I'm at 290 to the wheels, 265 torque. I'll scale back whatever mods I have to in order to stay in TTA. I can loose my wing, go with 255 tires, stay with stock brake calipers, etc...all points to give up that will not slow me down. My best time at thunderhill last weekend was a 2:02... the TTU winner and second place were in the 1:58's...another instance of a sactioning body trying to kill a gnat with a hammer. There are HUGE differences between Evos.

CharlesJ

iTrader: (6)

Well, we are blessed/cursed with an ecu that is almost as powerfull as a full stand alone. It doesnt say anything about adding one, just if you have a reflashable computer, which we do, and reflash it. The question really becomes a problem with generic vs fine tune. If you have an OTS generic map, you are really not maxing out what that 8 points is allowing, so I guess there is some question there. However it would be impossible to determine who has a generic. Anyone could claim that. Also, and many cars with OEM boost controllers, you could lump in the increased boost with your flash so you do not have to take the boost controller points. Lots of room for trickery here. To be fair to Greg though, its got to be very hard to come up with rules and points fair to all cars.

You want a real points shafting....and ALK (anit lift kit) on a subaru gets the +12 points for relocation of suspension geometry