As the title of the thread asks, how does one get started? Looking for some input from experienced racers on what path you recommend.

Seems like for many of the organized Time Trial and Time Attack races you need a competition license. How does one go about getting licensed? What schools, HPDEs, or other events would you recommend an open track newb attend?

Are there some schools that are more highly recommended than others. I've heard of Skip Barber and Bondurant, but that's about it.

Oh yeah - I'm in the midwest, so not going to drive the EVO to Cali or FL for a school.

Thanks for any input you may have!

EVOlutionary

 

Track time! Track time! Track time!
I've never had an instructor in my car and just learned (what little I know ) at Gingerman and Grattan right here in Michigan. Following faster cars is what pulled me to find my current limits.
Probably a better way to start is to go with a group that has instructors attend. CGImotorsports.com has instructors ride along for beginners and is very fairly priced. They run at Gingerman, which is a nice, flat, safe track.
NASA has what seems to be a great graduated program HPDE1-4 and finally TT when you are ready for competition. They also happen to be the best game in town here in the Midwest, as Redline appears to have nothing scheduled here for 2007 NASA's OH/IND region will be at MID OHIO, Puntam Park, and right here at Grattan (a significantly more challenging track than Gingerman ) next season.
I have no experience with Bondurant or Skip Barber, but I'm sure they would accelerate your progress-I sure hope so for the $$$ involved.
I've seen some of your Auto-X video, and you have good basic car feel-just get to the track and drive within your and your car's limits. My guess is you would be way ahead of many of the guys I've seen at track days around here Plus, your car would be very fast even well below it's limits
I am no experienced time trialer, but I am beginning to do what you want to do right now. I have just one time attack under my belt and am extremely hungry for more. Driving fast on the track is the biggest rush, and trying to perfect your line can become quite an obsession
Get your car set up for the track (probably minor tweaking for a car like yours-keeping brakes cool,etc.), sign up with an instructed group, and have fun is my humble advice GOOD LUCK!

 

One more nice thing about NASA is the option to eventually progress to actual "Road Racing". A nice instructed progression from slow to faster HPDEs, and then from TT to road racing if you desire.
I know almost nothing about SCCA, but I do know you would have to take off a few mods if you wanted to eventually race your Evo in T2

 

Damn... ur rough I think I may need to introduce you to my ITE Galant VR-4

 

Whoa-no offense . I just meant his mod list (as mine) is a wee bit beyond the flash, catback, and revalved struts that you guys are allowed.

 

Evolutionary, this is what I did...

1) After autocrossing for a little while (not as long as you), I went to a local NASA Mid-Atlantic event at Summit Point when I lived in the DC area. I entered HPDE1, which is the base level and is where you should start. In HPDE1, I got an assigned instructor for both days who did everything with me. I also had to attend many classes, one before each session, and we got eight 20-25 minute sessions on course. We were only allowed to pass in the straights and only after a pass signal from the driver ahead of us. We could also only pass one car at a time - no trains and no multiple passes.

2) My instructor liked what he saw and signed me off for HPDE2 on day 2, so I then moved to CO and got lucky that they started the NASA Rocky Mountain region. I went and participated in HPDE2 where most of the time you still have an assigned instructor unless there aren't enough instructors for all the drivers. After being in HPDE2 a while, I requested an evaluation for HPDE3.

3) The Group 2 lead instructor rode with me and had me do some things so he could test my fundamentals, then he was pleased and signed me off for group 3.

4) I then did group 3 for a while. Group 3 is usually as high as you go unless you have a specific desire to RACE or do time trials. You don't go to Group 4 unless you want to be there for the purpose of learning to really race. Group 4 is the only one with full, open passing, which means you can pass and be passed anywhere on the track without hesitation...but also without going crazy, since there's no reason to swap paint in an HPDE. However, they don't want you moving from group 4 to racing unless you're fully comfortable with passing and being passed anywhere on the track. I decided I wanted to do time trials, so I requested my group 4 evaluation.

5) This time, the group 3 lead instructor rode with me and conducted a much more stringent, thorough, and difficult test. He made me drive at 75% so that people were constantly passing me, because I wasn't used to looking in my rearview mirror, and I had to maintain my proper line and concentration while doing so. He also got in his car and made me play follow the leader in addition to leap-frog or whatever you want to call it...

6) So, after that, I got signed off for group 4, and at my next event, I'll start in group 4. Once you complete one day of group 4, you are able to submit your TT application. The regional TT director then evaluates you as you run in the TT group, but do not compete. If approved, then you get to compete in TT right away, but you have to send your application with $10 to HQ so that they can issue your actual national TT license.

 

^^^thats some good info right there... thanks

 

Johannes...

How did you get through the NASA system without EVER having an instructor in your car? Not thrwoing stones, just curious.

 

Just to give a different perspective, I was not impressed with NASA when I started doing HPDEs about 5 years ago. It seemed that they moved people up through the groups too fast and there were a lot of wrecks at every NASA event I did as a result of people getting over their heads. I never wrecked myself, but they did put me in HPDE 2 on the second day of my first event with them and HPDE 3 two events after that (I probably had fewer than 10 events total, including non-NASA events, under me when I was put in HPDE3). It seems that the higher groups were more or less just the faster cars rather than the better drivers. There was almost as much obliviousness in HPDE 3 as there was in HPDE 2. No offense to you, Warr, but the fact that they've signed you off for full passing in HPDE 4 with the limited experience you have tells me that they are still doing the same thing. There's a big difference between turning a fast lap in a restricted passing situation and handling traffic with free passing. And even if you pass their test, that somehow doesn't seem like enough to me if you don't have a pretty big amount of track time under your belt. From what I've seen, a lot of HPDE4 sessions look just like the race groups. And not to beat a dead horse, but they're also allowing a near full race situation without requiring even a 4-point roll bar in the car.

If you want to advance quick and get right into racing/time trialing as fast as possible, NASA is a good way to go, but beware of getting over your head too fast.

 

^^^hmm... interesting!?...

 

Clayton pretty much laid out the steps for you....

The only thing i have to really add is... Make sure you are comfortable behind the wheel in most situations, tell your instructor where you want to work on, car control, braking, apex, corner out, ect... anyone who lets their instructor know their weaknesses’ from the get go can always benefit. They will point out other items if they see them.

 

EVO8LTW, I have heard others share the same thoughts regarding NASA HPDEs. Because its a "fast-track" to racing atmosphere I have avoided participating in their weekends. I plan to spectate the next event to get a better handle on my region because I'd like to move to time trials in '08, but I am wary of going through the NASA HPDE system. If you want open tracking, NASA is definately the way to go.

 

I am attending my first NASA event this April at Mid Ohio. I joined NASA to take my driving up to the next level, and more importantly to fuel my competitive juices in a sport I love. I will attend every event in my region, and hopefully they will allow me to TT in time to qualify for Nationals.
I learned to drive on the track through many assorted HPDEs progressing through the groups and running with the advanced/instructor run group for the last 2 years. I am comfortable with open passing and can run fairly fast consistent laps, as long as my brakes will allow I just want more than that.
I imagine if that Audi from California manages to stay in TTA, I'll get a little more than I wanted
I probably should mention that I learned to drive at a very young age (rural area), and spent ages 16-18 driving a built 1972 Chevelle SS (454 big block posi-traction throttle on oversteer Heaven!) on the dirt roads of Northern Michigan. I learned how to drive a loose car first, which really seems to help me feel comfortable at the limit on the track.
It seems to me the first step is to get your car on the track to see how you like it. The slower run groups at every HPDE I have been to are very low pressure, and allow you to become familiar with your car at speed on your terms
Again, good luck and PM me if you want some info on local (non-NASA, Michigan) HPDEs next year.

 

NASA regions are obviously VERY different. The issues discussed above do not happen in NASA Norcal. If you cannot drive you are not going to make it to group 4. They are very very careful. Albert Butterfield, the group 4 leader is also not shy about demoting people in neccesary. this is as it should be. Group 4 in Norcal is looked at as the very next step, along with TT to wheel to wheel racing, and is treated as such. Memebers also police each other carefully. I'm hoping that NASA pays attention to what is going on in California nationally.

 

simple.

get seat time.

n