Rear Bump Steer Correction Kit
Dec 22, 2007, 08:58 PM
#31
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I have been running 1/32" to 1/16" out in the rear. The rear does wander a bit. For me, it's an acceptable trade off to reduce the low speed understeer, and it speeds up the rotation during trailbraking.
Dec 25, 2007, 04:24 PM
#34
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Okay, I finally decided to buy a press for this install instead of paying a shop to do it. I picked up a 12-ton press from a local shop for $105. It appears to be of the same quality as the Harbor Freight one. In the long run, having a press will be useful for doing other jobs as well, such as changing wheel studs and other bushings. So I felt it was worth the investment as labor for this install would probably cost around the same.
12-ton Press:
Here's the "assist link" that needs to be removed for the install:
You'll also need this ball-joint separater tool (I call it the "ball splitter"
) to remove the knuckle end of the "assist link".
Depending on the condition of your suspension components, separating the ball joint from your knuckle could be a major PITA! I applied pressure on the ball joint using the tool, and then had to hammer the bejesus out of it before it popped free. In the process, I boogered up the ball joint threads slightly. I had to sand the threads a bit in order to get the nut back on.
Assist link removed:
The stock bushing has a sleeve in it w/ two large washers pressed on both sides:
I took a 3/8" drive deep 10mm socket and pressed the sleeve out:
Sleeve removed from stock bushing:
A 1/2" drive 1" deep socket was perfect for removing the rest of the stock bushing.
When pressing the new bushing in, be sure to press it in from the correct side of the arm. Note the taper on the bushing hole! I've ripped an energy suspension bushing by pressing it in from the wrong side before. The energy suspension polyurethane is cheaper quality compared to these WORKS bushings though. Oh yeah, lube everything before pressing stuff in!
Done. Installed! Following the Whiteline instructions GTLocke13 posted earlier, I placed the offset hole in the "down" position for reduced bump steer.
Now I need to bring my car to get re-aligned. I have a track day in 1.5 weeks. I hope this solves my braking instability issues.
12-ton Press:
Here's the "assist link" that needs to be removed for the install:
You'll also need this ball-joint separater tool (I call it the "ball splitter"
) to remove the knuckle end of the "assist link".Depending on the condition of your suspension components, separating the ball joint from your knuckle could be a major PITA! I applied pressure on the ball joint using the tool, and then had to hammer the bejesus out of it before it popped free. In the process, I boogered up the ball joint threads slightly. I had to sand the threads a bit in order to get the nut back on.
Assist link removed:
The stock bushing has a sleeve in it w/ two large washers pressed on both sides:
I took a 3/8" drive deep 10mm socket and pressed the sleeve out:
Sleeve removed from stock bushing:
A 1/2" drive 1" deep socket was perfect for removing the rest of the stock bushing.
When pressing the new bushing in, be sure to press it in from the correct side of the arm. Note the taper on the bushing hole! I've ripped an energy suspension bushing by pressing it in from the wrong side before. The energy suspension polyurethane is cheaper quality compared to these WORKS bushings though. Oh yeah, lube everything before pressing stuff in!
Done. Installed! Following the Whiteline instructions GTLocke13 posted earlier, I placed the offset hole in the "down" position for reduced bump steer.
Now I need to bring my car to get re-aligned. I have a track day in 1.5 weeks. I hope this solves my braking instability issues.
Last edited by marksae; Dec 25, 2007 at 04:32 PM.
Dec 26, 2007, 08:55 PM
#37
My take on it is that I want as little toe change during suspension movement as possible. By minimizing bump steer, that's one less variable I have to think about. I have enough to worry about between static alignment settings, adjustable sways, and shocks.
Dec 27, 2007, 07:08 AM
#38
Rear toe out caused nothing but slower lap times for me (1/16"). I had significant "A$$ wiggle" while breaking and on hills or anything else that upset the balance of the car and caused compression that was not a turns. Not to mention, my straight line speed was compromised.
I heard a very interesting comment however.
Someone told that it was possible this was due to the ACD in the MR. The 5spd did not suffer the wiggle, as it did not have an active center diff constantly attempting to compensate for the rotation that the rear toe out created.
Thoughts?
I heard a very interesting comment however.
Someone told that it was possible this was due to the ACD in the MR. The 5spd did not suffer the wiggle, as it did not have an active center diff constantly attempting to compensate for the rotation that the rear toe out created.
Thoughts?
Dec 27, 2007, 07:24 AM
#39
Rear toe out caused nothing but slower lap times for me (1/16"). I had significant "A$$ wiggle" while breaking and on hills or anything else that upset the balance of the car and caused compression that was not a turns. Not to mention, my straight line speed was compromised.
I heard a very interesting comment however.
Someone told that it was possible this was due to the ACD in the MR. The 5spd did not suffer the wiggle, as it did not have an active center diff constantly attempting to compensate for the rotation that the rear toe out created.
Thoughts?
I heard a very interesting comment however.
Someone told that it was possible this was due to the ACD in the MR. The 5spd did not suffer the wiggle, as it did not have an active center diff constantly attempting to compensate for the rotation that the rear toe out created.
Thoughts?
If there was some way to get our bump steer to work backwards, (toe out on compression and toe in on extension) then I could see some benefits. The car would stabilize the back end on braking, rotate better in mid-turn, and give you more corner exit oversteer. I'd be interested to see if the bump steer correction kit actually gets the toe arm level (in which case you would have toe in on compression and extension) or actually angled down, which would lead to reversed toe behavior.
Jan 6, 2008, 02:57 PM
#40
Hey fellas,
I just got done with the the install of this kit. Everything went great, pressing out and pressing in was no problem. When I went to reinstall the arms is where I started to have problems. The innermost metal bushing of this kit didn't really fit into the slot as nicely as the old setup did. It was REALLY TIGHT. I even applied some grease to help ease it in. Nothing worked except a rubber mallet to get things in the rightful place.
What I noticed afterwards though was that it was that the grooves of the inner bushing were scratching up the paint where the arm goes...not sure how well that's going turn out a few years down the line as far as corrosion and rust are concerned...
Did any of you guys have any problems with the fittament of this kit when putting the arms back onto the car?
I just got done with the the install of this kit. Everything went great, pressing out and pressing in was no problem. When I went to reinstall the arms is where I started to have problems. The innermost metal bushing of this kit didn't really fit into the slot as nicely as the old setup did. It was REALLY TIGHT. I even applied some grease to help ease it in. Nothing worked except a rubber mallet to get things in the rightful place.
What I noticed afterwards though was that it was that the grooves of the inner bushing were scratching up the paint where the arm goes...not sure how well that's going turn out a few years down the line as far as corrosion and rust are concerned...
Did any of you guys have any problems with the fittament of this kit when putting the arms back onto the car?
Last edited by belizelittle39439; Jan 6, 2008 at 04:56 PM.
Jan 6, 2008, 11:53 PM
#41
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Vankuen, did you install the Whiteline or the WORKS kit? I greased up both sides of my bushing to ease it in. Both of my arms went back in w/o any problems.
Jan 7, 2008, 04:27 AM
#42
I have the whiteline kit.
The first side (driver's side) I did took a little time because I was confused at the fact that it wouldn't simply slide in by hand as the original bushing did. Eventually I figured out that it wasn't the yellow bushing but the metal insert that was causing the super tight fit because when trying to wiggle the bushing into place horizontally the metal insert's position moved from it's 6 oclock position 9 oclock position before I got the hole even lined up to put the bolt through it.
So I used the shop press to try and flatten out the ridges that were engraved into the metal cylinder ends, tried to use extra grease on the bushing, none of it helped. I even double checked the part number, and sure as **** it said KCA388 EVO 7-9.
Since the original bushing end cap was toast from the press, I had to finish the install, and used a small lightweight rubber mallet to get it into place from the bottom up (vertically). That's when I noticed the fittament was so tight that the ridges on the metal insert had actually scored the metal/paint to show bare aluminum. At that point though what can you do, ya know? So I fit the outer pillowball joint and tightened everything down.
On the passenger side, I took the original bushing which wasn't damaged while pressing out (because I used a smaller socket) and compared the width with the metal insert width. They visually seemed to be the same length, Whiteline's engraved ridges seem to make the insert less than a mm of difference longer. Very very very close. Some would probably say they were the same length but obviously they weren't.
This side went in a little quicker/easier though having used the same (final) technique devised from the other side. I knew I'd have to use the rubber mallet and come in from the bottom up to keep the orientation of the metal insert about right.
....
Sorry for the long write-up...just wanted to see if other's had the same experience in the slightest. So no one else had scored paint or perhaps had to use a little "coaxing" to get the completed bushing in it's rightful spot, huh?
Perhaps it's just my luck. My entire whiteline experience hasn't been a good one in terms of installs...the right wheel was cosmetically damaged while putting the lugs on after the ball joint/tie rod end was done on that side; on the driver side somehow part of the lip at the bottom of the control arm came off with the ball joint when pressing out; and now the rear bump steer kit, although I got it in, has given a little character to the area with it's engravings. Maybe the car is giving me a hint...funny though...all my other installs on this car have gone flawlessly.
The first side (driver's side) I did took a little time because I was confused at the fact that it wouldn't simply slide in by hand as the original bushing did. Eventually I figured out that it wasn't the yellow bushing but the metal insert that was causing the super tight fit because when trying to wiggle the bushing into place horizontally the metal insert's position moved from it's 6 oclock position 9 oclock position before I got the hole even lined up to put the bolt through it.
So I used the shop press to try and flatten out the ridges that were engraved into the metal cylinder ends, tried to use extra grease on the bushing, none of it helped. I even double checked the part number, and sure as **** it said KCA388 EVO 7-9.
Since the original bushing end cap was toast from the press, I had to finish the install, and used a small lightweight rubber mallet to get it into place from the bottom up (vertically). That's when I noticed the fittament was so tight that the ridges on the metal insert had actually scored the metal/paint to show bare aluminum. At that point though what can you do, ya know? So I fit the outer pillowball joint and tightened everything down.
On the passenger side, I took the original bushing which wasn't damaged while pressing out (because I used a smaller socket) and compared the width with the metal insert width. They visually seemed to be the same length, Whiteline's engraved ridges seem to make the insert less than a mm of difference longer. Very very very close. Some would probably say they were the same length but obviously they weren't.
This side went in a little quicker/easier though having used the same (final) technique devised from the other side. I knew I'd have to use the rubber mallet and come in from the bottom up to keep the orientation of the metal insert about right.
....
Sorry for the long write-up...just wanted to see if other's had the same experience in the slightest. So no one else had scored paint or perhaps had to use a little "coaxing" to get the completed bushing in it's rightful spot, huh?
Perhaps it's just my luck. My entire whiteline experience hasn't been a good one in terms of installs...the right wheel was cosmetically damaged while putting the lugs on after the ball joint/tie rod end was done on that side; on the driver side somehow part of the lip at the bottom of the control arm came off with the ball joint when pressing out; and now the rear bump steer kit, although I got it in, has given a little character to the area with it's engravings. Maybe the car is giving me a hint...funny though...all my other installs on this car have gone flawlessly.
Last edited by belizelittle39439; Jan 7, 2008 at 04:38 AM.
Jan 7, 2008, 08:17 AM
#43
Subscribed - I have a full whiteline bushing kit with the percision steer kit I need to install under the car this month along with the AMS moustache eliminator and front lightweight member. Perhaps, I need to buy a press. I am quite nervous about this and will be bugging people for advice, I am sure.
Jan 7, 2008, 09:32 AM
#44
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Vankuen, so wait.. you tried to press the new bushing into the arm w/ the metal sleeve in it? BTW, what ridges are you talking about? I never had any on mine.
Jan 7, 2008, 10:09 AM
#45
No, first press-in was the outer bushing, and then the inner cylinder. Not both at the same time.
The whiteline kit's metal cylinder has some ridges or grooves on each end. I'm not sure why. Basically I compressed on the cylinder a bit to try and flatten down those ridges.
I know that your work's kit doesn't have those ridges. I have a feeling that if the cylinders were smooth that my problem of having to tap in the arm wouldn't have occurred. The second time around, I got it in within three taps of the mallet and there was minimal scratching of the paint, but then again I had spend an hour or so on the other side figuring out a way to get it in there without damaging anything--so the other side isn't so pretty.
The whiteline kit's metal cylinder has some ridges or grooves on each end. I'm not sure why. Basically I compressed on the cylinder a bit to try and flatten down those ridges.
I know that your work's kit doesn't have those ridges. I have a feeling that if the cylinders were smooth that my problem of having to tap in the arm wouldn't have occurred. The second time around, I got it in within three taps of the mallet and there was minimal scratching of the paint, but then again I had spend an hour or so on the other side figuring out a way to get it in there without damaging anything--so the other side isn't so pretty.
Last edited by belizelittle39439; Jan 7, 2008 at 10:11 AM.
