2008 Redline Time Attack Rules Discussion
Jan 3, 2008, 05:50 PM
#61
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Instead of random inspections, why not stick with just protesting rules? And I am talking real protesting rules like used in other racing series...The person protesting formally files his protest and hands the officials $100 cash. The person being protested against is sent to an impound area and has the option of proving himself guilty or non-guilty (example: removing his catalytic converter to show it is legal.)If the person protested against is found not guilty, he gets the $100 for the trouble.If the person is found guilty or refuses to prove he is not guilty, the protestor gets his $100 and the protestee is disqualified.This way if someone files a protest, they are probably almost positive they are correct since they have to put $100 on the line.
Now that I think about it, this policy shoulda been in place last year on at least one occaision I can think of....
Jan 3, 2008, 06:09 PM
#62
yes its good ,but then is no limit for cat too. Since one will flow better then other or one wont even work... Basicly just for show. So if you have a sniffer you can make a limit for smog or emission. Since that is the whole idea. Not just lets have a cat , i think.
Or lets make a no cat rule over the street class. I think that would be a great idea . Cat only requierd on street right? If that is the case why the tuner or unlimited class cant run without it?
Those cars will not change the GW. issues anyway.
I think they have the equipment to measure the noise ,so why they wouldn't do the same with the cat? without the measurments its kind a shady buisness ,no?
Or lets make a no cat rule over the street class. I think that would be a great idea . Cat only requierd on street right? If that is the case why the tuner or unlimited class cant run without it?
Those cars will not change the GW. issues anyway.
I think they have the equipment to measure the noise ,so why they wouldn't do the same with the cat? without the measurments its kind a shady buisness ,no?
Last edited by Robevo RS; Jan 3, 2008 at 06:14 PM.
Jan 3, 2008, 09:39 PM
#65
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ROBEVORS, I dont understand you, one of us drunk be must .....
Jan 4, 2008, 11:33 AM
#66
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So far, the only portable 4 and 5 gas analyzers are in the $3000 range.. Surely WAY out of the range we would be willing to spend to police the cat requirement.
You can find analyzers that only detect CO (Carbon Monoxide) for a few hundred bucks, but Im not so sure that will do what we need it to do.
If anyone can point me in the direction of a portable unit that can test for the gases we need to test, that is reasonably priced, please post the link here...
You can find analyzers that only detect CO (Carbon Monoxide) for a few hundred bucks, but Im not so sure that will do what we need it to do.
If anyone can point me in the direction of a portable unit that can test for the gases we need to test, that is reasonably priced, please post the link here...
Jan 4, 2008, 11:43 AM
#67
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After doing further research, it appears as though reductions in CO is one function of a catalytic converter... So, now it is just a matter of determining what the threshold is for an acceptable level of CO coming out of a tailpipe.
Surely I can test a number of cars I have direct access to, and see what the readings are, knowing these cars have cats installed. Then I'll test a few cars that I know do NOT have cats installed and see what the difference is.
Im assuming it will be fairly evident when a vehicle does not have a cat installed and working, based off the CO readings.
Nikolas
Surely I can test a number of cars I have direct access to, and see what the readings are, knowing these cars have cats installed. Then I'll test a few cars that I know do NOT have cats installed and see what the difference is.
Im assuming it will be fairly evident when a vehicle does not have a cat installed and working, based off the CO readings.
Nikolas
Jan 4, 2008, 01:34 PM
#68
but then this would be defeat the purpose to have one, no? That was my point , if we using cat then we need a limit . Other wise we just need one for show, so its pointless. One honest guy will show up with a highflow cat, one is with the factory cat, and one will show up with one just for show/probably me/. Because the rule are not clear. So all will have a cat, but i think that situation would be highly unfair. Don't even mention when they heat up....
Jan 4, 2008, 02:18 PM
#69
but then this would be defeat the purpose to have one, no? That was my point , if we using cat then we need a limit . Other wise we just need one for show, so its pointless. One honest guy will show up with a highflow cat, one is with the factory cat, and one will show up with one just for show/probably me/. Because the rule are not clear. So all will have a cat, but i think that situation would be highly unfair. Don't even mention when they heat up....
Nik answered:
1) "Race" cats are allowed. We require that it be a functioning catalytic converter. Could be high flow...could be OEM... doesn't matter. Obviously we will do random inspections of cats to verify.
2) No specific specs... just that the main exhaust system must have a catalytic converter as part of the system. No getting around this rule by bolting a cat to the "car" and saying "look....I have a cat installed on the car..."
3) We'll inspect cats randomly during Tech Inspection... and will probably inspect those vehicles that podium...
2) No specific specs... just that the main exhaust system must have a catalytic converter as part of the system. No getting around this rule by bolting a cat to the "car" and saying "look....I have a cat installed on the car..."
3) We'll inspect cats randomly during Tech Inspection... and will probably inspect those vehicles that podium...
Last edited by Smogrunner; Jan 4, 2008 at 02:24 PM.
Jan 4, 2008, 02:57 PM
#70
^ I dont understand why the tuner class and above needs catalic converter. They really not street legal from the begin with....
The street or street modifyed class it is clear, but above?
I don't get it. Also i do not have too much money , so i really need to look the rule book before i get start to building. And i do not have too much time before the season starts. I dont want to buy stuff what i have to change or i need a retune.
The street or street modifyed class it is clear, but above?
I don't get it. Also i do not have too much money , so i really need to look the rule book before i get start to building. And i do not have too much time before the season starts. I dont want to buy stuff what i have to change or i need a retune.
Jan 4, 2008, 02:57 PM
#71
but then this would be defeat the purpose to have one, no? That was my point , if we using cat then we need a limit . Other wise we just need one for show, so its pointless. One honest guy will show up with a highflow cat, one is with the factory cat, and one will show up with one just for show/probably me/. Because the rule are not clear. So all will have a cat, but i think that situation would be highly unfair. Don't even mention when they heat up....
The cat could be functional and the car might still not pass a sniffer test, due to a rich tune. Asking to require sniffer testing sounds like a way to penalize the high HP cars.
Jan 4, 2008, 03:01 PM
#72
There are 2 Street Tire classes in SCCA solo that require a cat. There are many functional race-cats out there like what Cobb, Random, etc. and several hi-end euro exhaust manufacturers offer. The SCCA will check to see if the cat has a core under a protest, but even they rejected the idea of sniffer testing. I believe sanctioned rally has the similar rules.
The cat could be functional and the car might still not pass a sniffer test, due to a rich tune. Asking to require sniffer testing sounds like a way to penalize the high HP cars.
The cat could be functional and the car might still not pass a sniffer test, due to a rich tune. Asking to require sniffer testing sounds like a way to penalize the high HP cars.
Jan 4, 2008, 03:26 PM
#73
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Here's the problem. I anticipated this discussion about cats, because I want the highest flowing one I can find. Before buying it, I specificly asked if a super high flowing one was ok. Nik posted up that it was fine. So, WITH THIS CLARIFICATION, I went out and spent over a hundred dollars on a race cat. That cat is acceptable, period. End of story, right? This new rule is already costing me over $150. The heck if I'm gonna go get another one after already getting approval... See the first post of this entire thread.
I do this for fun ya know.... not to throw money away
n
Jan 4, 2008, 05:21 PM
#74
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Here's the problem. I anticipated this discussion about cats, because I want the highest flowing one I can find. Before buying it, I specificly asked if a super high flowing one was ok. Nik posted up that it was fine. So, WITH THIS CLARIFICATION, I went out and spent over a hundred dollars on a race cat. That cat is acceptable, period. End of story, right? This new rule is already costing me over $150. The heck if I'm gonna go get another one after already getting approval.
The only exceptions should be for safety issues and if some really creative person bends/interprets a rule loophole in a crazy way (as mentioned previously, turbine engine swaps still allowed...
).SSRX7, does the SCCA have a tech system in place to test/check for cats or is it simply a visual inspection if a formal protest is filed? Do they require a bond with a protest? $$$?
Rob, what do you mean by: "that is why i 'm asking why a tuner and above class needs it?" As far as I understand, only the street class has a cat rule.
