I've got an 2001 Evo VI TME and i'm getting ready to put a cage in built for rally specs. I've finally found a local cage builder that has done many cages just not to these rules.

http://www.fia.com/resources/documen...pJ_Art_253.pdf

I've ready through and through and am still having a hard time figuring out exactly what bars are required.

I think my big problem is understanding what "homologation date" to use.. can anyone give me a hand with this one

Thanks

 

There's two ways to build a cage: To the rule book, or using a homologated cage.

If you build the cage to the rule book (Art 253 Apdx J), then it is by default legal.

Homologated cages may or may not meet Art 253, but they have been tested to meet minimum force requirements set forth by the FIA. These are usually kits from a manufacturer that has had the cage tested by the FIA, or has demonstrated it's strength through FEA or some other means.

So if you're building to the rule book, and not using a homologated cage kit, you don't need to worry about homologation date.

 

Sorry for the quick offtopic:

I am so jealous of the car you own and what you are doing with it

Good luck with it!

 

Oh, I almost forgot, the FIA rules talk about CDS which is hard to find. Get the Rally-America rule book for the conversions from the FIA required CDS tubing size to DOM.

 

I think what he's asking (because its a little murky to me too) is that there are different rules for roll cages based on the homologation date of the car. This has nothing to do with cage homologation.

For instance, for cars homologated before 1/1/2002, you only need one diagonal reinforcement in the main hoop. For cars homologated after that, you need two diagonals. Is the homologation date the build date of the car? Is it the date of the first race that particular car is entered in? Is it the date the model was made legal for FIA competition?

 

Sounds like it's time to ask Mike Hurst, either over on the Rally-America forums or Special Stage.

He's "The Man" so whatever he says won't be speculation.

 

From the Rally America rulebook:

Safety cages that meet the specifications (for new homologations) of
current FIA Appendix J Article 253, which requires CDS tubing.
Refer to the following FIA documents.

That says to me you have to use the latest spec from the FIA rule book -- can't build to the original homologation date requirements.

But once again, I'd ask Mike Hurst to be extra sure.

 

Thanks for all the feedback so far. Yea the part that has me confused is when in the FIA rules it states "Cars homologated before 01/01/2002" or a certain date.

Which led me to find this..

http://www.ralliart.com/GRN/homologation/vi_tme.html

which doesn't make much sense to me.

I'll see if i can't get into those special stage forums and see if i can get some more answers. Thanks for all the help I really want to get this build on it's way...

 

I'd just buy an already prepped EVO rally car if you are serious. Doing the build yourself is expensive, and hard to get right if you don't know what you're doing.

Are you planning on running Rallies? Which class? What series? Do you have experience?

If this is your first rally car you should start with a 2WD Group 2 car and learn the ropes before spending the money on an EVO.

I've been through it - trust me.

 

If you haven't started the build yet, you might want to consider buying a used rally car. There are several pre-Evo VIIIs floating around the US right now.

That said, if you decide to built it, I'd recommend going with a custom setup, as all of the homolgated cages for your car were designed back when the VI was a new car. There's been many improvements to cage design since then, but AFAIK, there are no 'updated homologated' VI cages to purchase pre-bent. Since the VIs came out, new cages have many more cross bars and make extensive use of gusset plates.

If you click on the link in my signature, you can see pics of the newest Custom Cages FIA kit for the Evo VIII-IX.

Dave

 

Thanks for the input, but i've got this car now and this is what i want to work it towards. As long as i follow the rules it shouldn't be too bad and there is no rush since this is just a side project for now.

As far as running rallies, yeah it would be great to get into, but i'm active military for about the next 7 years so it's not as feasible with taking time off to do them.

I want to build this car towards being able to rally when i finally am able to. So for now it's just so i can race anything local to where i'm stationed. Any input from your experience is greatly appreciated but i'm going to be stubborn as to building this car as to getting another one.

 

Yeah that's what i figured with the homologated cages for the vi and why I was looking for a custom built, so i'm glad i'm on the right track as far as that's concerned. My only problem with the custom cage is where i'm currently located there is not much to work with shop wise.

I found a cage builder that has done many cages for dirt track cars and nascar types but has yet to have to build to the FIA rule book so it's a little confusing to him. Basically what i'm trying to figure out is what the basic construction of the cage is needed then add from there because how Art 253 Appendix J is worded, depending when the car was homologated is which bars you need has got me stuck seeing how i dont know which date to use. Would it be correct in just using the latest date to build the cage off of?


Your car looks great, dont think i could have ever gotten the nerve to tear down my old MR though. Once again thanks for all the help!

 

My recommendation is that until you plan to enter a rally, don't put the cage in. Rally rules change on a regular basis, and until you enter an event and get a logbook certifying your car construction, your car won't be legal. If you build it now and rules change in the 2-3 years before you take it to a rally, you might find yourself having to tear the entire cage out of the car and start over. Sounds really unfair, but that's what the rally organizations need to do to keep their lawyers happy.

I would also recommend that you don't use a 'roundy-round' cage builder to do your cage. While his welding skills may be great, the worst cage I ever saw in a rally car (which had to be torn out and re-done) came from a guy who did cages for road racing...i.e. he didn't understand the needs of a rally cage.

The other thing to consider is that if you're a new rally driver, Rally America will make you start out in a FWD non-turbo car, and until you've demonstrated several finishes, you won't be granted a liscence to run an AWD turbo.

Have fun with the project!

Dave

 

The way i understood it was after the cage is put in you could then apply for a logbook and once you had the logbook your cage build would be based on when you got the logbook for it. If that's not the case I will end up waiting and just working on the rest of the car...

As far as when i actually get started I understood all of the start out in a slow, less capable car to prove yourself before they let you enter in the faster ones.


If that is the case with the cage i may just go get my seats and exhaust finished on it and get back to the local stuff.

 

You are correct, you can get the car logbooked after the cage goes in...but at least for me, it was hard to find someone who can do that outside of an event weekend, and most people will be too busy with competitors on a race weekend to be able to squeeze in looking at a car that's not competing. If you have local scrutineers, go for it! I'd also recommend having one of them speak to your cage builder before you start bending tubes. If you can anticipate what the rules will be for 2009, build to that spec so if the build takes longer than planned your hands won't be tied.

Happy rallying!

Dave