No idea why this is here. Putting it in motorsports.

 

+1 ... Most of the energy of the fossil fuel is dissipated as heat anyways. With improvements in technology and enough time, things change, its a fact of life. It would be interesting to see everything move to a more electric platform. Imagining tuning your DC motors for more power output

 

Every year they change the rules, usually to try and slow the cars down. And every year, the engineers find ways to make similar or more power with less. We would still likely be driving around without ABS and traction control on street cars if it wasn't for F1, so why not let the most specialized automotive manufacturing facilities in the world take on the challenge of performance hybrid? It's a good PR move, and will undoubtedly push the technology forward much faster than we could have ever expected.

 

Hey look! Its one of those 17 year olds who only thinks that gasoline engines with 350 turbo'd horse power are worth anything in the world!

Why would it hurt a racing series in any way to move to better technology that will also help the environment?

 

I see it as only helping the sport...

 

all for it the sooner we have fast performance cars running on electricity the better.
Seeing how hard the greeny weenies have come down on off road recreation(used to race motocross) its only a matter of time they kill off gas guzzling race cars..

 

Exactly! How efficient is the best internal combustion engine, somewhere in the 30% range for current automotive and somewhere in the 40% range in test labs which is not impressive. It's like buying 10 gallons of fuel and only getting 3 or 4 gallons which is total BS if you think about it. I mean all that we're trying to do is to get the wheels under the cart turning anyways and to stay with IC engines in todays age would be similar to wanting to use an old steam engine.

I say let F1 run electric motors, for it'll only help get the world up to speed by applying new minds to an old technology. Permanent magnet AC motors would be the best approach because they have a lots of torque, capable of regenerative braking and you don't need to waste power generating magnetism with field coils like in a series or shunt wound DC motor not to mention being able to time the thing through it's rpm range.

Don't worry about the range, just consider the latest & greatest in Li Ion batteries. Stanford claims to have developed a new Li Ion battery with 10x the energy density when compared to the Li Ion batteries that are currently on the market.

http://news-service.stanford.edu/new...re-010908.html

Or maybe super capacitors...

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...arge-life.html

 

Hybrids are a bad idea unless you do alot of stop and go city driving.

This is not explained to public who are rushing to buy the things.

What is the real cost per mile when you factor in buying an $8000.00 replacment battery pack and have to rebuild the engine?

What is the real eviromental impact of all those heavy metals and other toxic compounds in the battery pack?

If you want to advance the art of internal combustion with F1, why not require them to run direct injected compression ignition gasoline engines.

That technology offers the fuel effiency of a diesel with the light weight of a gas motor.

The only reason F1 could gain anything is due to energy recovery during hard braking. This will not transfer to street cars easily because we don't drive 140 into a hair pin corner and stand on the brakes to pull it down to 30 mph and repeat time after time.

The people making these rules must not be engineers, and that is sad, they have some of the best, hell I would love to have a chance to work on an F1 team.

Mitsuatb

 

just what we need high powered battery race cars this is a joke and having less pits wont benefit f1 because once you do that you will loose sponsors like the tire and fuel companies which is the driving force behind f1

 

True but I get around 72mpg in the city and 48mpg on the highway and get 550 miles out of tank of gas... that I can barely manage to squeeze 10 gallons into. On top of that I can get 28mpg driving at 108mph for miles & miles, the top speed of a Prius when traveling across Nebraska Another one to look at is the freight train... it's a diesel engine driving a generator which drives electric motors, a hybrid. The reason they do this is for better fuel economy and trains don't drive in stop & go traffic.


What is the real cost per mile when you factor in buying an $8000.00 replacment battery pack and have to rebuild the engine? Mitsuatb[/quote]


Interesting a $8000 battery pack? Where did you get that price? You can get aftermarket packs that blow away the Prius battery pack for that kind of money and Ebay battery packs for Prius are running $400-$700 out of fairly new smashed up cars.

But it would be best to keep in mind that the Prius battery pack has a 10 year 100,000 warranty and it was designed to last about 15 years and there are people who already have close to 200,000 miles on them without failure.

What is the real eviromental impact of all those heavy metals and other toxic compounds in the battery pack? Mitsuatb[/quote]

That is a good question but I'd have to say that it's less than the damage that we've done to the planet by using fossil fuels.

If you want to advance the art of internal combustion with F1, why not require them to run direct injected compression ignition gasoline engines.

That technology offers the fuel effiency of a diesel with the light weight of a gas motor. Mitsuatb[/quote]


Good point but it still burns fossil fuels and the efficiency still blows goats when compared to an electric motor.

The only reason F1 could gain anything is due to energy recovery during hard braking. This will not transfer to street cars easily because we don't drive 140 into a hair pin corner and stand on the brakes to pull it down to 30 mph and repeat time after time.

The Prius transmission uses one planetary gearset and two permanent magnet AC motors and by controlling the speed and direction of the two motors they can infinite gear ratios in both forward and reverse. When I slow down to a stop from high speeds or low speed around town driving you can hear the motors winding way up to reclaim all the power they can through regenerative braking so the speed that you slow down from doesn't matter. I've got one in the shop and it's a sweet transmission if you ask me.

The people making these rules must not be engineers, and that is sad, they have some of the best, hell I would love to have a chance to work on an F1 team. Mitsuatb[/quote]

Oh I'm sure that there are several engineers making these decisions regarding the direction of F1. Let's keep a good attitude about this and hope the technology trickles down into the cars we drive everyday.

 

Oh I doubt it...

I'm sure the world will be watching F1 closely because of it.

 

My attitude is fine.

Used battery packs that have crashed, Like explosions in your cars?

Everybody loves electric cars, but where does the power come from to charge them?

So they burn fossil fuels indirectly, what s the gain in that?

Trains use diesel electric since they have a hard time building a reliable mechanical system to handle that much power. They do not store power, nothing hybird about it.

Every energy conversion has waste.

A small diesel engine could out perform your Prius, check out PM they have a whole story about it.

I am weary of typing, go find accurate info, I have already lead you to water.

Mitsuatb



Interesting a $8000 battery pack? Where did you get that price? You can get aftermarket packs that blow away the Prius battery pack for that kind of money and Ebay battery packs for Prius are running $400-$700 out of fairly new smashed up cars.

But it would be best to keep in mind that the Prius battery pack has a 10 year 100,000 warranty and it was designed to last about 15 years and there are people who already have close to 200,000 miles on them without failure.

What is the real eviromental impact of all those heavy metals and other toxic compounds in the battery pack? Mitsuatb[/quote]

That is a good question but I'd have to say that it's less than the damage that we've done to the planet by using fossil fuels.

If you want to advance the art of internal combustion with F1, why not require them to run direct injected compression ignition gasoline engines.

That technology offers the fuel effiency of a diesel with the light weight of a gas motor. Mitsuatb[/quote]


Good point but it still burns fossil fuels and the efficiency still blows goats when compared to an electric motor.

The only reason F1 could gain anything is due to energy recovery during hard braking. This will not transfer to street cars easily because we don't drive 140 into a hair pin corner and stand on the brakes to pull it down to 30 mph and repeat time after time.

The Prius transmission uses one planetary gearset and two permanent magnet AC motors and by controlling the speed and direction of the two motors they can infinite gear ratios in both forward and reverse. When I slow down to a stop from high speeds or low speed around town driving you can hear the motors winding way up to reclaim all the power they can through regenerative braking so the speed that you slow down from doesn't matter. I've got one in the shop and it's a sweet transmission if you ask me.

The people making these rules must not be engineers, and that is sad, they have some of the best, hell I would love to have a chance to work on an F1 team. Mitsuatb[/quote]

Oh I'm sure that there are several engineers making these decisions regarding the direction of F1. Let's keep a good attitude about this and hope the technology trickles down into the cars we drive everyday.[/QUOTE]

 

Sounds like a great idea.
Electric is good, we only need better batteries. If we all had gone electric earlier in the century (electric cars were invented before fuel cars,by the way), we would have amazing milage by now.

 

That is a good question but I'd have to say that it's less than the damage that we've done to the planet by using fossil fuels.

If you want to advance the art of internal combustion with F1, why not require them to run direct injected compression ignition gasoline engines.

That technology offers the fuel effiency of a diesel with the light weight of a gas motor. Mitsuatb


Good point but it still burns fossil fuels and the efficiency still blows goats when compared to an electric motor.

The only reason F1 could gain anything is due to energy recovery during hard braking. This will not transfer to street cars easily because we don't drive 140 into a hair pin corner and stand on the brakes to pull it down to 30 mph and repeat time after time.

The Prius transmission uses one planetary gearset and two permanent magnet AC motors and by controlling the speed and direction of the two motors they can infinite gear ratios in both forward and reverse. When I slow down to a stop from high speeds or low speed around town driving you can hear the motors winding way up to reclaim all the power they can through regenerative braking so the speed that you slow down from doesn't matter. I've got one in the shop and it's a sweet transmission if you ask me.

The people making these rules must not be engineers, and that is sad, they have some of the best, hell I would love to have a chance to work on an F1 team. Mitsuatb[/quote]

Oh I'm sure that there are several engineers making these decisions regarding the direction of F1. Let's keep a good attitude about this and hope the technology trickles down into the cars we drive everyday.[/QUOTE]

The electricity to charge the batteries is produced using less fuel at better efficiency that a regular car burning fuel.

 

This thread is f******G painful. Bigdeal.

The "hybrid" tech inquestion is in fact a KERS (kinetic energy return system).

A big flywheel that is fed by regenerative braking is spun up to speed while the car decelerates. Upon acceleration the flywheels kinetic mass can be fed back through the powertrain.

This is actually a much less sophisticated system than Toyota's winning GT car
and should be a hoot to watch and drive.

If you guys still want to be pissed off anyway, the bigger danger in F1 is the freeze on engineering and spec equipment issued to all teams, such as the KERS sytem. This path will lead to a NASCAR like bland field of boring cars and drama about drivers, teams and thier dumb lives.