Oh oh oh.... by the way.

One thing you can do RIGHT NOW to get started is get in touch with Rally America or whomever and tell them that you want to get in. Ask them if there is a team in your area who could use a hand with crew. There will be.

Hook up with them and learn. Go to a few races on their dime and get the feel. They can put you in the car for a few practice stages and get your feet wet.

Crawl before you walk. Walk before you run.

 

No you don't.

You should never subject a car to the abuse that Rally dishes out if you can't afford to load it full of explosives and watch it go boom.

The damage laid on these cars is just epic and after they live as a rally car there is not much else left for them. Once in, they are dedicated race cars.

 

Just being honost here but this is part of the problem with ligitament raceing as many call it. No wonder underground raceing is the most popular form of raceing and always will be. It should never cost you 5k to enter a race, whats poor people supposed to do? I can get on the phone rite now and have a rally race going by saturday and it only cost gas and my time. These high fees you mention are BS. If they are as high as you guys suggest then its set up to make the uper uper class think they are good drivers since nobody else could afford to race. Tell you what I might just fix that. They must be paying people off if the fees are so high, just who is getting rich off this? There is no reason it should cost so much to race, period. I'm gonna do some digging on this and find out what it costs to set up a race like a rally. I pay for these roads they race on just like everyone else does. In fact I build the roads they race on. I'm building one now. I'm off this week because of the damned thief, and getting laid off in 3 weeks after that. Plenty of time to see whats what.

dsycks: Yea I saw that on rally americas web sight. After I get laid off I'll check it out, plenty of time to volunteer then. Nobody still hasn't told me a ligitament reason why I shouldn't build my own car though. And yes I got your mail, just been busy here trying to figure out what all is missing.

OK the reasons I think I should build it, tell me if I'm wrong.

[1] I do over 95 percent of the work on my own cars and have since I was a kid. Yea I get help sometimes from friends and family.

[2] These are my recognized qualifications to build the car:

[a] 2 years of auto mechanics when I was in high school. Never been unused since then.

[b] 2 years and a summer of Auto Body & Fender also in high school. Quite rusty but my cousine will go over the car and spray it for free.

[c] 1.5 plus years of Mech Engineering. I can design and draw a car from scratch with auto cad. this includes proper cages.

[d] 2 years of Machine shop. Machinest 1 "A" everage in this class. To go higher the closest place is chattanooga for tool and die maker.

So after spending 8 years in school just on cars alone please tell me why I shouldn't do it. The last 2 classes where full time classes too. Machine shop was 8 hours a day.

Yea I agree I have lots to learn, as does everybody. I don't see me learning much if I let others do the work for me. There is nothing that can be done to my car I can't do myself or someone in my family can't take care of for me for free. I can't weld good, but my brother is a very good welder. He took it for years in high school. So if I'm missing something please tell me. I'm not rich. Its hard for me to go to the bank and say I need a loan for 20k to buy a race car, but very easy to get a loan for a car and build it as I have the money. I envey you guys who can plop down 12k for suspension alone, but I'll never be able to afford that. Unless I can get started and get sponsers. How hard is it to get sponsers? I don't mean just for tires either.

I think the cost to build a car for most people will be alote higher than it will be for me. Don't confuse the costs you pay others to build your cars with what it would ciost me for materials and time. I can read and apply the car rules rally america imposes on the cars. As long as I build by the rules I don't see what the problem is, please explain?

 

Also, I haven't worked out the support truck part yet, but other than tirs and maybe spare parts like an alternator, belts, etc. What do I need? I can get a friend to bring a truck with all the parts I need as well as tools, etc. I'll probablly have to buy his food and gas though.

 

damn that guy can drive

 

I assure you that the Rally America guys are not getting rich running these races.

How easy do you think it is to get someone to close down maybe 100miles of roads for a few days? How many people live on these roads and how much sweet talking do you have to do to get them on board? How much prep work do you have to do to get things organized, safe and good to go? Its a nightmare.

I can tell you how many hours it would take me just to try to get media, press releases, contact with sponsors, fans and wow... countless other things in the month prior to a race and I assure you, it was a second full time job.

Please do not think that you can not race on a budget. It's the difference between a team that is there to learn and have fun and one that was trying to compete for a title and promote bio-diesel as the only race team in America who was running the stuff.

As for why to not build a car. Cost. It would be great to build your own as you would know every inch of it. Then again why not get a beater for your first car and save your pennies to build the car you want to race later? You could build a car into a work of art only to beat it to death as a noob. Why not kill your first car, learn from it what you like, don't like and want in your next car and then build that?

In short, just like a road racing car, you simply can not build a car for as little as you can buy it used. Guys get up to their eyeballs in debt and have life hit them and sell their cars for bargain deals. If you have (or want) to sell your car later you will take a smaller loss on one you buy as you have less invested.

In the end you have choices. I know I would have loved to do rally, my greatest joy is bombing backroads. I have gotten to be pretty handy at track days but I cut my teeth sliding a pickup truck around gravel roads. I drifted before drifting was cool. I worked with a rally team and saw the same things that you are hearing from us... it costs. I wanted into a car so I started doing track days as they were the cheapest way to drive hard and stay safe for regular guy money.

If you want the feel of rally and want to do it cheap, consider rally cross or maybe some TSD rallies. Work your way up or get in with a team and learn before you dive in head first.

 

I'll post in more comments later but here's a taste of what you're in for if you build yourself:

Bought a 1988 323 GTX for $2200. 5 years later and my receipts for the car as it sat at the time of sale was over $20k (blew motor, flipped car, painted, broken control arms, etc - expenses don't include consumables like gas, tires, oil changes, etc.). Please keep in mind this isn't bragging, this is just to give you an idea of what one team spent to keep their car on the road. Care to guess what I was able to sell it for? A measly $6k...and it was on the market for 6 months.

We're trying to help you out and avoid the mistakes that we may have made on our first cars or have seen others make. Buy your first one used. If you're looking Group2, that should put you in the $3-5k for a beater, $8-10k for a nicer starter car, and $15k for a really nice first car. VW Golfs/GTIs are perfect for a first car. Besides, if you're really racing the car, you're going to wad it up...even the top guys do it. Why not have the first lesson be as cheap as possible.

Dave

 

Here's a list of things to consider:

control arms/suspension linkage
shocks/struts
shock/strut top mounts
sway bars
sway bar links
brake pads
rotors
brake lines
brake fluid
transmission
axles
bumpers
headlights & aux. lights
extra wires, fuses, relays
spare radiator & other misc. hoses
spark plugs
plug wires
coil packs
duct tape
zip ties
welder

Sure its a big list, but remember if the entry fee is $1000, you don't want to have to pull out of the event for a $15 part. Many events are run as two separate one day events, so if you have a terminal issue with the car on Saturday, if you've got the spare parts, a late night thrash might get you up and running for Sunday.

Rallying sure is expensive and for me it also involves 1000+ mile tows if you live in Colorado...that's why my primary focus has been hillclimbing. Entry fees are $175/weekend and you get prize money depending on your finishes.

FWIW, might be worth starting a new thread on 'how to get rallying' as I think we've strayed a bit OT here.

Dave

 

I understand you guys are trying to help me. I have yet to see a car for 8 to 10k ready to go. If I did find one how do I know its not on its last leg and beat to all hell begging me to roll it so I can put it out of its misery? Since they make me start off in stock class and the car must remain mostly stock except for safety enhancments. I don't see all this build expense you guys are talking about. I just got through reading the rules about 15 minutes ago. Based on what I read this is what I see it would take to build the car and buy it. Dsycks said there may be a problem with the 96 eagle talon suspension, but he thought it was an eclipse, not sure if its the same. Anyway I'm gonna pretend I am building the car rite now and document the build. If I leave anything out when I say I'm done let me know. I'll tell you how much it will cost me to build it. According to the rules most of the safety eguipment even helments has a short life span and must be replaced reguraly. Seems to me I could buy a car for 12k and then have to replace the seat belts, fire extenquisers, etc rite off the batt when I whould have all that new if I build it.

[1] Car price comes to $2,800 tax tags and title. Car already has new tires on it.

[2] Cage price at uper end is $800.

[3] Fire extenquisers, suites, nomex gloves, boots, etc, will have to check all that.

[4] Lights 8 count max, I believe the rules said factory head lamps count as 2 of them, so would have to buy 6. can build the light bar.

[5] Seatbelts 2 each.

[6] helments 2 each.

[7] triangles 3 each.

[8] First aid kit with said components. Already have this.

[9] Window nets 2 each in case I want to roll down the window over an inch.

[10] Extra gages and pod, I assume its allowed, it didn't say it wasn't.

[11] 4 extra tires and rims, can get at the junk yard for cheap.

[12] maybe relocate the battery to the trunk, shouldn't cost much.

[13] for now off the top of my head this is what would be reguired.

Main price I see is for the car and cage. would be a total of $3,600 for those max.

Most of the rest is labor. I'll have to buy the gloves, suites, helment and boots anyway even if I buy another car.

Tell you what, just fopr fun and the education of it I'm gonna pretend I'm building the car. I'll do this over a period of the next few weeks on another thread. I'll get links for each part I have to buy except the initial car and cage. I wanna see how much it would cost me myself. I'll document it just like it was really happening. When I'm done if I missed something you quys can let me know. The rules did say I can change tires and the width but must have fender flares so the tire can't be seen from the above position. So I will most likely do that for sure. I'm gonna have to read the rules a bunch of times as I simulate this so bare with me. I'll have to also find the parts online to supply the links.

And dave I agree the first lesson should be as cheap as possible, its just I think I can build a new car cheaper than you can find a used one of equal quality. I have looked online for a car, can't find anything cheap worth haveing. If you guys can I'm waiting to see it. I'll start a new thread for the car build and work on it off and on till I'm done. Well see what it will cost me.

 

lol, thats what I just said I was gonna do :].

 

I didn't think we had hill climbs here, but I did find one. Dve whats thr car rules like for hill climb?

 

Our class was designed for rally cars who wanted to find some additional seat time. The cars need to be built to the Rally America or NASA rule book from the prior year....i.e. for this year running CHCA, I need to have a car that is 2007 legal for RA or NASA.

There are other classes with fewer rules too.

Dave

 

O' ok so the only thing your saveing is the cost to enter the event then?

 

Sort of...hillclimbs aren't as rough as rallies, and the pits are at the bottom of the hill so you don't need the extra expenses associated with having a crew. Also, with rallies you're running somewhat blind into the woods and rely on your navvie and what you can see. A crash can be caused by a number of factors outside your (meaning the driver) control. Navvie could read a note wrong and you could fly into the trees. You could have a bad set of notes...seen it happen when 3 cars in a row went flying off the same corner with disasterous results.

With hillclimbs we get to preview the road and make our pace notes, so that really cuts down on surprises. I've been told by some of the locals that also get out to a fair number of rallies that folks drive the cars closer to their potential at hillclimbs whereas on a rally road, you need to leave a little bit on the table to ensure you're actually able to finish...part of the race is just surviving to the end.

Dave

 

Yea Imagine even with a Navvie nobody could drive at 100 percent the whole time, not and actually finish the event.