Understeer
It will be fine, you are talking like it will crash if you understeer. It won't. The Evo is very very very forgiving. If you start to understeer, gently let off the gas and push the brakes. Keyword: gently. Always be smooth. You are in a very heavy car that like to have the body roll under pressure with stock suspension. If you hit the brakes hard, the car can oversteer pretty quickly.
That is another point though, you can mess around with changing the balance of the car (by sudden throttle or braking changes) and see if you can get it to drive the way you want. Mine would oversteer perfectly if I left off the gas real fast, or gave it a quick hard tap to the brakes and got back on the gas. Be careful with doing all that though, as it can make it oversteer out of control if you aren't. I drove a friend's car on track that had about 380 whp, decent street tires and stock brake pads. It was insane. I'd have to brake SUPER early. So be careful there too. All the people who have highly modded HP monsters that start thinking about going to the track are crazy IMO. A 380 whp otherwise stock Evo with street tires is going to be a handful at the track, so take extra caution that you know the rest of your car isn't up to containing the hp.
As a benefit to that though, the friend's Evo I drove on track would oversteer beautifully with sudden application of the throttle because of the high hp. The power would go to ALL wheels, but the front would hold fine and the rear would come lose.
Messing around with tire pressures may help as well. So will making sure you rotate worn tires from the front to the back so the rears are more warn out.
That is another point though, you can mess around with changing the balance of the car (by sudden throttle or braking changes) and see if you can get it to drive the way you want. Mine would oversteer perfectly if I left off the gas real fast, or gave it a quick hard tap to the brakes and got back on the gas. Be careful with doing all that though, as it can make it oversteer out of control if you aren't. I drove a friend's car on track that had about 380 whp, decent street tires and stock brake pads. It was insane. I'd have to brake SUPER early. So be careful there too. All the people who have highly modded HP monsters that start thinking about going to the track are crazy IMO. A 380 whp otherwise stock Evo with street tires is going to be a handful at the track, so take extra caution that you know the rest of your car isn't up to containing the hp.
As a benefit to that though, the friend's Evo I drove on track would oversteer beautifully with sudden application of the throttle because of the high hp. The power would go to ALL wheels, but the front would hold fine and the rear would come lose.
Messing around with tire pressures may help as well. So will making sure you rotate worn tires from the front to the back so the rears are more warn out.
*cough*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCxqCQifkA4
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From: El paso, Texas
It will be fine, you are talking like it will crash if you understeer. It won't. The Evo is very very very forgiving. If you start to understeer, gently let off the gas and push the brakes. Keyword: gently. Always be smooth. You are in a very heavy car that like to have the body roll under pressure with stock suspension. If you hit the brakes hard, the car can oversteer pretty quickly.
That is another point though, you can mess around with changing the balance of the car (by sudden throttle or braking changes) and see if you can get it to drive the way you want. Mine would oversteer perfectly if I left off the gas real fast, or gave it a quick hard tap to the brakes and got back on the gas. Be careful with doing all that though, as it can make it oversteer out of control if you aren't. I drove a friend's car on track that had about 380 whp, decent street tires and stock brake pads. It was insane. I'd have to brake SUPER early. So be careful there too. All the people who have highly modded HP monsters that start thinking about going to the track are crazy IMO. A 380 whp otherwise stock Evo with street tires is going to be a handful at the track, so take extra caution that you know the rest of your car isn't up to containing the hp.
As a benefit to that though, the friend's Evo I drove on track would oversteer beautifully with sudden application of the throttle because of the high hp. The power would go to ALL wheels, but the front would hold fine and the rear would come lose.
Messing around with tire pressures may help as well. So will making sure you rotate worn tires from the front to the back so the rears are more warn out.
That is another point though, you can mess around with changing the balance of the car (by sudden throttle or braking changes) and see if you can get it to drive the way you want. Mine would oversteer perfectly if I left off the gas real fast, or gave it a quick hard tap to the brakes and got back on the gas. Be careful with doing all that though, as it can make it oversteer out of control if you aren't. I drove a friend's car on track that had about 380 whp, decent street tires and stock brake pads. It was insane. I'd have to brake SUPER early. So be careful there too. All the people who have highly modded HP monsters that start thinking about going to the track are crazy IMO. A 380 whp otherwise stock Evo with street tires is going to be a handful at the track, so take extra caution that you know the rest of your car isn't up to containing the hp.
As a benefit to that though, the friend's Evo I drove on track would oversteer beautifully with sudden application of the throttle because of the high hp. The power would go to ALL wheels, but the front would hold fine and the rear would come lose.
Messing around with tire pressures may help as well. So will making sure you rotate worn tires from the front to the back so the rears are more warn out.
As far as brakes, I will be running dedicated track pads and I have ss brake lines and also slotted rotors. Im not sure what rotors they are but they seem like they will do a good job.
Also I just ordered a set of bridgestone re01r tires but Im thinking of saving those for later and using the ones I have currently to learn on. My question is that my inner tire is really worn out
they are probably a lot more treadless now but I was actually going to have them flipped so the outside is on the inner now. Would this be safe to take out on the track or should I just throw on my re01r tires
understeer
there are a few ways to overcome understeer. One is lift-off oversteer, which naturally happens when you get off the gas suddenly. this transfers the weight to the front, so on turn-in, the rear will rotate better.
The other is to simply trail-brake into the turn. some people refer to this as late braking since you will be braking into the turn, but the evo responds pretty well to this technique.
as a beginner, trail-braking will likely not be your fastest way around a corner, and it's important that you learn how to "catch a slide" when one occurs (opposite lock, partial throttle). road racing is probably not the best place to learn how to do this because of the speeds involved.
With that said, the best way to avoid understeer is to prevent it from happening in the first place - slow down. don't try to overcook a turn. if you're feeling the car understeer, it means you are trying to take the corner too fast. lines go a lot farther on a track than womping on the throttle and thrashing on the brakes.
unfortunately, more power doesn't mean it'll be easier for you to break the rear end loose on the evo (no matter what fast & furious would have you believe). that is due to it's 50/50 power distribution and the evo's tenacious grip on tarmac. If you were on a loose surface, it would be a different story.
The other is to simply trail-brake into the turn. some people refer to this as late braking since you will be braking into the turn, but the evo responds pretty well to this technique.
as a beginner, trail-braking will likely not be your fastest way around a corner, and it's important that you learn how to "catch a slide" when one occurs (opposite lock, partial throttle). road racing is probably not the best place to learn how to do this because of the speeds involved.
With that said, the best way to avoid understeer is to prevent it from happening in the first place - slow down. don't try to overcook a turn. if you're feeling the car understeer, it means you are trying to take the corner too fast. lines go a lot farther on a track than womping on the throttle and thrashing on the brakes.
unfortunately, more power doesn't mean it'll be easier for you to break the rear end loose on the evo (no matter what fast & furious would have you believe). that is due to it's 50/50 power distribution and the evo's tenacious grip on tarmac. If you were on a loose surface, it would be a different story.
Last edited by supasixfo; Feb 25, 2009 at 01:39 PM.
You are giving him too much ideas to play around, which would get him into trouble on his 1st day out.
*cough*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCxqCQifkA4
*cough*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCxqCQifkA4
Thanks this is the info I was looking for. Yea I've read about lift off oversteer and certain techniques to make the car oversteer but Im not sure Im ready to attempt it. I just want to go out on the track and learn and get seat time but I was just curious on the understeer issue since everyone says evos push badly stock.
As far as brakes, I will be running dedicated track pads and I have ss brake lines and also slotted rotors. Im not sure what rotors they are but they seem like they will do a good job.
Also I just ordered a set of bridgestone re01r tires but Im thinking of saving those for later and using the ones I have currently to learn on. My question is that my inner tire is really worn out
they are probably a lot more treadless now but I was actually going to have them flipped so the outside is on the inner now. Would this be safe to take out on the track or should I just throw on my re01r tires
As far as brakes, I will be running dedicated track pads and I have ss brake lines and also slotted rotors. Im not sure what rotors they are but they seem like they will do a good job.
Also I just ordered a set of bridgestone re01r tires but Im thinking of saving those for later and using the ones I have currently to learn on. My question is that my inner tire is really worn out
they are probably a lot more treadless now but I was actually going to have them flipped so the outside is on the inner now. Would this be safe to take out on the track or should I just throw on my re01r tires
Your outsides of your tires should wear out more on the track with stock camber, so you "should" be fine. I'd keep an eye on them as you go if you really want to drive on them still... Otherwise it might be best just to be safe and switch to the RE01Rs (which are great tires btw). Do not do what Matthew333 said, running different tires on an AWD car is never a good idea, and is a good way to ruin something in the drivetrain (namely the TC).
Also, what AWDaddict recommended is not fully needed. I only had coilovers and never had problems with under or oversteer. When I really pushed my car it would simply slide out, the rear tires didn't lose traction any slower or faster than my fronts, from my early street tires days, through r-comps, to full-on slicks. It was balanced just fine without all that extra stuff. Though that stuff may help, it certainly isn't needed for a decently balanced car. You're going out to the track for fun at some HPDEs, not going out to be the fastest in a race.
What supasixfo said is all good info too. Except for the fact that I have driven a stock Evo with high hp that the back end stepped out on with throttle, but he was a long time auto-xer and I think he'd messed with his tire pressures.
Last edited by UT_Evo; Feb 25, 2009 at 02:35 PM.
I did post a link on what he should focus on for his first time out rather than have him sit in the paddock and mess around with his settings.
Since it didn't seem like he read it, so I just gave him a general set-up to eliminate the understeering.
The question is why is he so focus on the car understeering versus on what he should do on his 1st DE?
Since it didn't seem like he read it, so I just gave him a general set-up to eliminate the understeering.
The question is why is he so focus on the car understeering versus on what he should do on his 1st DE?
I know, but he didn't ask for tips for his first day, he just said he was concerned about the understeer and wanted to know more about it.
And that article is... mediocre at best. Some of the tips are great. Some are not.
-Do NOT be a "thumb-hooker" (I am guilty of this) ....I know this sounds weird, but I have noticed that sometimes it is comfortable to "hook" my thumb through the steering wheel while driving instead of holding the wheel at 10 and 2. This may be fine and dandy, but if something should jolt your wheel (burm, rock, debris) it will be harder to react with your hands not on the wheel properly
For example... Um, no, hold it at 9 and 3, you have a wider range of control then. I've been taught this by TONS of racing experts, and hell, it is what they teach in driver's ed now finally too. Your steering wheel (especially on the Evo) is designed with the grips at 9 and 3, not at 10 and two because that is where you should grip the wheel of any car. I don't even know why he says the comment about jolting your wheel and having more control at 10 and 2. If my hands are just wrapped around the wheel, I'm going to have much less control than if my hands are wrapped around AND my thumbs are locked into a place, that way if it jerks up on the right, my thumb (and the part between it and my index finger) can counter-act this force much better than my hand could at "2"
The sum up for first timers should just be: Make sure all your fluid and other wear items are in good shape and replace all fluid with higher heat fluid if necessary (like brake fluid). Make sure your car and your helmet will pass tech for the group you are running with. Don't stress too much about the other cars on track, just be aware of them, and if they need to pass you, let them pass you where YOU feel it is safe and where the group you are running with has specified as being a passing zone. Other than that, just have fun, and take it easy your first few runs, it is a learning experience, not a racing experience.
And that article is... mediocre at best. Some of the tips are great. Some are not.
-Do NOT be a "thumb-hooker" (I am guilty of this) ....I know this sounds weird, but I have noticed that sometimes it is comfortable to "hook" my thumb through the steering wheel while driving instead of holding the wheel at 10 and 2. This may be fine and dandy, but if something should jolt your wheel (burm, rock, debris) it will be harder to react with your hands not on the wheel properly
For example... Um, no, hold it at 9 and 3, you have a wider range of control then. I've been taught this by TONS of racing experts, and hell, it is what they teach in driver's ed now finally too. Your steering wheel (especially on the Evo) is designed with the grips at 9 and 3, not at 10 and two because that is where you should grip the wheel of any car. I don't even know why he says the comment about jolting your wheel and having more control at 10 and 2. If my hands are just wrapped around the wheel, I'm going to have much less control than if my hands are wrapped around AND my thumbs are locked into a place, that way if it jerks up on the right, my thumb (and the part between it and my index finger) can counter-act this force much better than my hand could at "2"
The sum up for first timers should just be: Make sure all your fluid and other wear items are in good shape and replace all fluid with higher heat fluid if necessary (like brake fluid). Make sure your car and your helmet will pass tech for the group you are running with. Don't stress too much about the other cars on track, just be aware of them, and if they need to pass you, let them pass you where YOU feel it is safe and where the group you are running with has specified as being a passing zone. Other than that, just have fun, and take it easy your first few runs, it is a learning experience, not a racing experience.
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Here is the track layout.
and AWDaddict I did read it, some helpful info but some of it I already new. I may not have ever raced before but I watch a lot of time attack videos and read up on a lot of racing techniques. I was only just curious as to what kind of understeering issue i would run into and the best way to prevent or overcome the situation.
and AWDaddict I did read it, some helpful info but some of it I already new. I may not have ever raced before but I watch a lot of time attack videos and read up on a lot of racing techniques. I was only just curious as to what kind of understeering issue i would run into and the best way to prevent or overcome the situation.
Don't over think the driving your first time out. Have fun and don't push the car too hard.Dave
Do you call it an HPDE every time you talk about it? I sure don't, I call it racing. Not wheel-to-wheel, but I'm doing time trials against myself everytime I go out there. And often against friends who are or have been out there too... Pretty sure that is racing.
"Bye honey, I'm going to the HPDE today"
Nope... more like "Bye honey, going to the track today" or "Going racing today" How many people in the normal world even know what HPDE is without a lengthy explanation. Even after I explain it most people are like "so... you're racing?"But yeah, in essence, all you need to know is what Dave quoted supasixfo saying... Plus the added fact of: if you're feeling the car understeer, it means you are trying to take the corner to fast, or are taking the wrong line. You could be going pig slow and understeer because you're taking the wrong line.
Last edited by UT_Evo; Feb 25, 2009 at 11:47 PM.
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