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project:BDR 2006 Evo STU build thread

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Old Mar 22, 2012, 08:39 AM
  #181  
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Originally Posted by SS RX7 r2
We were probably the first to run the 9.5" 38mm et RPF1s for AX. With stock camber, 245/40s and 20mm spacers it may rub the inner front fenders lips when lowered. You need to pull the top of the tires in with neg camber, using camber plates. I recommend our 19mm spacers and Camber/caster plates of course.

Rick
I was actually rubbing on the fender liner at (or near) full lock, as it turns out. Easily fixed with a heat gun (and within the rules, as far as I could tell). Camber is a different issue, but I'll take that to PM with you.


Butt Dyno: I'm sure you've posted this before, but what are you using for data acquisition? And perhaps more importantly, are you satisfied with it?
Old Mar 22, 2012, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Butt Dyno
I think I remember Hollis saying something like every 6" off a slalom cone is .1 on the clock, can't find the citation though.
I wouldn't get wrapped up in anything Hollis said... unless it has to do with his Homemade-Honda TSB first time he was caught being deceitful over a decade ago, or the illegal valvetrain in his ST civic more recently.... good driver, sure, but he is the personification of what we do NOT need in our sport...


Originally Posted by Butt Dyno
I definitely over-slowed as I hit 25 mph instead of the 28 mph that Josh kept going the whole time. So, good eye, because I'm re-watching the video and I still don't see it But it's definitely there.
As I am sure Josh or other fast drivers have shared/told you... remember the physics of the slip angle, and available grip for a given contact patch... The slowing was made MORE obvious by the fact you turned in... unwound the wheel slightly, then turned in again...

Fast cornering needs to either be turn in - max grip - unwind as you accelerate out, or if a turn that gets tighter.. turn in - more... more... then unwind as you accelerate out. Either way yet to see a proper/fast turn taken turn in, opps, turn in again. :P

I kid, we are all guilty of it, just you provided video proof. I do look forward to running with both you and Josh SOMETIME in 2012!
Old Mar 22, 2012, 05:28 PM
  #183  
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Originally Posted by Construct
I was actually rubbing on the fender liner at (or near) full lock, as it turns out. Easily fixed with a heat gun (and within the rules, as far as I could tell). Camber is a different issue, but I'll take that to PM with you.

Butt Dyno: I'm sure you've posted this before, but what are you using for data acquisition? And perhaps more importantly, are you satisfied with it?
I'm using a MaxQData Veqtr system.

I really like it, but they appear to be sort of out of business.
http://www.maxqdata.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=844

As such, I would not recommend it

Its main strength is that it is very very easy to review and compare two runs, very quickly. Even dual-driver at a Tour, we had plenty of time to review our runs and come up with plans to fix the mistakes. This is IMHO the #1 most important thing for an autocross data aq system.

If my MaxQ exploded tomorrow I am not sure what I would replace it with. I got it in about May '09 and will keep using it as long as it functions.

Originally Posted by Bassicfun
As I am sure Josh or other fast drivers have shared/told you... remember the physics of the slip angle, and available grip for a given contact patch... The slowing was made MORE obvious by the fact you turned in... unwound the wheel slightly, then turned in again...

Fast cornering needs to either be turn in - max grip - unwind as you accelerate out, or if a turn that gets tighter.. turn in - more... more... then unwind as you accelerate out. Either way yet to see a proper/fast turn taken turn in, opps, turn in again. :P

I kid, we are all guilty of it, just you provided video proof. I do look forward to running with both you and Josh SOMETIME in 2012!
Oh, I get it, you don't mean the braking zone into the turnaround, you mean the whole turnaround. Yeah, it's a lot clearer now... brake, turn-in, unwind (whoops, shallow!), turn-in again. I just went back to look at my 2nd run, and it was a lot better on that front, but it still was not one constant motion.

As a point of comparison, here is one of Matt Braun's runs on the same course:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh1LF_-NhHw

If you start it at about :30 you can see him entering the turnaround and from :36 to :38 it is almost a perfect constant radius turn, with just a hair more steering input at the very end.

All this re-watching also has me wondering how hard I hit that cone on my 3rd run. I didn't hit the 2nd one by very much, maybe 2" too close to it.
Old Mar 22, 2012, 06:49 PM
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I'll definitely be at the Toledo Pro, so we should have a pretty good STU group out there. John, that means that you have to go.
Old Mar 23, 2012, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by piknockout
I'll definitely be at the Toledo Pro, so we should have a pretty good STU group out there. John, that means that you have to go.
Yeah yeah. If my clutch survives the DC Pro it's a possibility.
Old Mar 23, 2012, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Butt Dyno
Yeah yeah. If my clutch survives the DC Pro it's a possibility.
You know you can put another clutch in when it wears out, right?

I should be in STU in Toledo as my FP ride won't be making it. I'm waitlisted for DC but I doubt I can make it there due to budget this year...
Old Mar 23, 2012, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Butt Dyno
Oh, I get it, you don't mean the braking zone into the turnaround, you mean the whole turnaround. Yeah, it's a lot clearer now... brake, turn-in, unwind (whoops, shallow!), turn-in again. I just went back to look at my 2nd run, and it was a lot better on that front, but it still was not one constant motion.
Take this for what it's worth, but your steering inputs make it seem like you're not looking far enough ahead. aka, you're not unwinding the wheel enough from the elements preceding where you make a double steering input because you weren't looking at the next element soon enough to gauge correctly the line leading up to it. And then when you do actually process the element you're coming up to you realize that you're way too tight and have to make a correction.
Old Mar 23, 2012, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by griceiv
Take this for what it's worth, but your steering inputs make it seem like you're not looking far enough ahead. aka, you're not unwinding the wheel enough from the elements preceding where you make a double steering input because you weren't looking at the next element soon enough to gauge correctly the line leading up to it. And then when you do actually process the element you're coming up to you realize that you're way too tight and have to make a correction.
Well said!! Just needs a 'like' button!
Old Mar 25, 2012, 07:23 PM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by spool_sample
You know you can put another clutch in when it wears out, right?
Yeah, I just don't want to have to do TWO a year. One is okay

Originally Posted by griceiv
Take this for what it's worth, but your steering inputs make it seem like you're not looking far enough ahead. aka, you're not unwinding the wheel enough from the elements preceding where you make a double steering input because you weren't looking at the next element soon enough to gauge correctly the line leading up to it. And then when you do actually process the element you're coming up to you realize that you're way too tight and have to make a correction.
Originally Posted by Bassicfun
Well said!! Just needs a 'like' button!
That sounds right to me. I wasn't looking ahead enough, definitely. No offense taken or anything - it's true and it's something I absolutely need to fix.

It's funny, it's like the #1 thing that you learn when you're getting started, and it's a whole 'nuther deal to make a habit of it all the time. I had one big driver-mod goal for the year - something I would remind myself during every coursewalk to do - stop divebombing stuff. After this, I've added: really, look ahead, don't just say you're going to do it, do it! It is so easy to get bad habits ingrained by not getting outside feedback, and hearing all this stuff really helps.

(If I was betting, I'd guess that the divebombing was from not looking ahead...)

Event #3: Autocrossers Inc, Waldorf, 3-25-2012

I picked up those orange Enkeis for STU, but the Dunlops on them were 255s. They still have a good amount of life left in them so I did want to use them, but I had to run ASP in order to be legal. I also had to run Pro since I'm an AI member this year (doing the website).

It was raining in the morning though not hard. Heat 2 could best be described as drying conditions. Despite that it was slippery as hell. During the coursewalk, I took note of some braking zones/entries to stay ahead on (not divebomb) and some areas where it would be particularly key to look ahead. STR got down to a 46.8 so my goal was low 46s/high 45s depending on conditions. Thankfully they did not get worse.

First run, overdriving and getting a feel for the grip levels... 50.2, +4. The car was really coming out of the tight slow stuff sideways. Fun but not fast. 2nd run: 48.3+1, overdriving in the slalom. 3rd run, get a clean one in... 48.4 clean. Still off the pace quite a bit. 4th run felt great until spinning RIGHT before the finish... 55 something. One run left, let's get it together... felt great, no big mistakes, clean run, nice and tidy through the finish... 9.4? Crap... timing problems. Rerun

My rerun felt great and I came across the line with a 46.5. It was sloppy in the slow stuff, but I was looking ahead more (still not enough, but more, especially in the greater-than-90-degree elements) and I was ahead in all the slaloms and offsets. Unfortunately I was a little too ahead somewhere in the early slalom and picked up a cone, presumably with the back of the car. A little disappointing but whatever. Results aren't up yet, but 46.5 would have been the fast time on street tires (I think). Still a ways off from what an STU Evo should be getting on that kind of a course.

edit: results are up.
On the ASP index, best clean run - 37th out of 70
On the STU index, best clean run - 23rd out of 70
On the STU index, if dirty run was clean - 7th out of 70 and 4/21 in Pro class
To take top PAX over Sam would mean running a clean 44.9. Yikes!

Here is hoping for nicer weather next weekend!

Last edited by Butt Dyno; Mar 28, 2012 at 07:45 PM.
Old Mar 29, 2012, 04:45 PM
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Sunday was a storm of fail for me.
Old Mar 29, 2012, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 03threefiftyz
Sunday was a storm of fail for me.
Did the shocks survive?

Rain is on the forecast for Hershey. WTF? Two straight weekends
Old Mar 30, 2012, 02:35 PM
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Yep, no rain and sunny during the week with rain for the weekends. Lame.
Old Apr 2, 2012, 09:58 AM
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Thanks again for the co-drive John, the car felt fantastic in the wet. Very controllable and balanced. I think we may be on to something with this setup.
Old Apr 4, 2012, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by piknockout
Thanks again for the co-drive John, the car felt fantastic in the wet. Very controllable and balanced. I think we may be on to something with this setup.
Word!

Event #4: Susquehanna SCCA @ Hersheypark, 3-30-2012

Setup (new stuff in bold):
Moton Clubsports
full soft, everywhere
600/800 springs
-3.4 / -1.5, 0 toe
Fresh 245-40-17 Dunlop Z1s on 17x9 SSR Type C RS, 15mm spacers in the front
30/27 psi
WORKS 24mm rear swaybar on full soft
Factory rear differential rebuild
Power: yes
Conditions: mid 40s, windy, damp

Hershey is one of the better lots within a 3 hour drive, probably the best besides Fedex (now that Fedex's grip seems to be mostly back). They only run the big lot at the beginning and end of the season - the rest of the year, Hershey is busy using it for actual theme park parking

Josh's car had a cracked strut still, so he codrove the Evo again.

The course looked really not that fun after the walk. There was one section in particular that was just inexplicably painful, like bottom of 2nd gear painful, and maybe 30% of the lot wasn't being used at all. I set up my GoPro but didn't bother with the MaxQ, figuring I wanted it more for DC and that I didn't want to have to remember to charge it.

We ran 2nd heat. First heat was in the 58s, so we weren't really sure what to expect in terms of times. It wasn't raining much, maybe just misting. By the middle of our heat things were drying out a little and we were starting to get tire squeal.

Josh went out first and got a 56.6. I got a 55.6 on my first run (plus one) and Josh realized that he needed to be a bit more aggressive. He took it down to a 53.8 (+1) on his 2nd. I cleaned it up and ran a 54.8, including an accidental clutch-in on the top left of the course because I thought I was going to spin. But it was clean, or at least, devoid of penalties

Run 3, Josh went out and ran a 52.7. This was his best, and not only was it top PAX, it was also FTD (a first for my car):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAn9iS_O_Mk

I went out to run a 53.8 - clean, but still not mistake free by any means - good for 3rd in PAX:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMlS3PTpos0
Offhand - I felt like I was doing a better job of looking ahead than Dixie, except for the last couple hard turns on the course. I overslowed at the end of the fastest section, something that I'd gotten right on my first two runs. I should have shifted to 2nd off the bat. etc, etc.

Run 4 was slower for both of us but more entertaining.

piknockout drift demo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt5mVsIeg0I
(even with the drift - this *also* would have been FTD)

Me pushing through the finish a bit sideways
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04PUYAashAc

The 'merican muscle mostly ran in heat 3 - five guys with high trophies at nationals, and at least two with jackets, maybe 4. They got better conditions than us, but they had the minor handicap of having to put down a gajillion torques on A6s in cold/damp conditions. Impressive car control for sure. Strano and Savini did pass my time, but not Josh's. Josh even got an autographed trophy out of the deal. I drove better than I had in the wet the previous weekend but still off the pace.



Takeaways:
* That was really, really fun. I can say I was enjoying driving enough that I was not worried about my times at all.
* Run the data aq all the time!
* Car is pretty good in the wet. Very controllable and easy to point in the right direction.

Last edited by Butt Dyno; Apr 4, 2012 at 09:27 PM.
Old Apr 4, 2012, 09:51 PM
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Event #5: WDCR/SCCA @ Fedex,April 1 2012

Setup (new stuff in bold):
Moton Clubsports
rebound/compression: middle f/r
600/800 springs
-3.4 / -1.5, 0 toe
Fresh 245-40-17 Dunlop Z1s on 17x9 SSR Type C RS, 15mm spacers in the front
36/36 psi
WORKS 24mm rear swaybar on full soft
Factory rear differential rebuild
Power: yes
Conditions: 60s, cloudy

With the DC Pro coming up, some seat time on the Fedex surface would be useful. I was hoping to not need to change anything from the Dixie settings. STU was a little smaller than usual, with 4 local folks in different cars for the day.

For run 1, I took a local guy in the military who had never been to an autox before. I think he liked it




It was a sloppy 49.3. I was trying to get on the gas too early (impatience!) and the rear was coming out.

Runs 2, 3, and 4 were a picture of inconsistency. I'd fix one thing and screw up another...

Run 2: 47.7... plus 1. Not sure which cone I hit, at all. But STR was won with a 47.6 and my goal was to beat STR, so I figured I was in the ballpark.

Run 3: 47.7, plus one (still not sure what I hit). Worse, it was almost a mirror image of run 2. By that I mean - the initial slalom was better, the hard turn was worse, the fast section was better, the turnaround was worse, the uphill slalom was better, the righthander and the rest was worse... one of those "my theoretical laptime would be sweet" kind of deals. Meh. Shane rode along with me and had some great feedback, about how he would often try to codrive in a momentum car from time to time to remember how to integrate a momentum line and to not just blindly point and shoot all the time.

Between 3 and 4, an E36 spewed coolant on pretty much the entire course. So we got a nice half hour break...

Run 4: I tried Shane's advice and it was all great. Unfortunately the car got squirrely exiting the uphill slalom, in a place it had not gotten squirrely before. Coolant perhaps? I ran a 48.0, plus 2. The run was going very well until the squirreliness - a few tenths up on my run 3 mostly on the strength of Shane's advice - but after the almost spin I was pressing and hit a cone in the last box. I did make up a ton of time by integrating a more momentumy line though. This would have been roughly a 47.0 otherwise... meh.

I definitely treated the last run differently knowing it was a practice event, i.e. not for points. I was thinking more "get a killer raw time" than "you need a clean one here." Probably a bad habit. Obviously at the big events you need to do both

DC Pro is next! I hope my clutch survives because I love me some ProSolo. Last one I did was DC in 2010 in my WRX.

The car is currently out for some upgrades... we'll see what comes out of it


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