ktk

iTrader: (9)

Car is a daily driven fully built 2.3L stroker that sees a lot of spirited driving and 5-7 track weekends a year. It is driven year around in all weather and does all the family duties as well.

Most recent time just to give an idea of what I do with the car is 1:19-1:20 at Putnam Park in full street trim on street tires.

The reason I bring this question to the Motorsport subforum is because I'm not looking for peak power/drag race/dyno queen status, I want a reliable roadcourse type transient response, quick spool, with similar power (400awhp on 93octane) to what I have now (old journal bearing 50 trim from 2005 long defunct shop).

Old turbo is leaking oil out of the hotside seals after 80k+ miles at 400whp and 5k+ track miles, it is time to upgrade and take advantage of much newer turbo technology. It has earned its retirement

The question is, has dual ball bearing, billet wheel, water or air cooled, tech been sufficiently tested in real world roadcourse type application? How much abuse can these fancy turbos take? Are they suited to drag racing application only or will they reliably make 400-500whp for 6+ hours in a weekend and then cold start and run daily driver duty on the normal days in any weather?

I'm leaning towards Garret GTX3076 or similar because they are a known turbo manufacturer who does all the typical in house OEM reliability testing... But any reliability info that any of you have on similar turbos from any manufacturer will be appreciated.

Please post from personal experience, I'm trying to avoid the baseless hearsay and biased opinions that plague these types of threads in the technical subforums

Thanks in advance

boomn29

iTrader: (47)

Stock turbo ftw!

For comparison - earlier this year on 93octane I ran 1:19's at Putnam on street tires weighing ~3300 lbs on the stock turbo!.

Nah, but seriously. HTA FPGreen or CBRD BBK-Lite is probably what you want. I'm considering both of these for a good road/race setup for right around 400whp. I wouldn't hesitate to put either in my car and run them 20 track days in 2012; assuming a good tuner of course...
1 step higher would be the HTA FPRed or CBRD BBK-Full or new AMS 750R.

ktk

iTrader: (9)

Holy crap no way! Please tell me you had a tune or something becuase if you are running the same times as me with stock power and same weight then I need some serious driving tips and here I was thinking I was doing a decent job

edit: just noticed you are a multitime NASA champ LOL Ok now i don't feel as bad!

As far as turbo selction, I have 2 additional concerns:

1) I already have a full tubular T3 manifold, so I am not constrained to stock frame turbos.

2) I was (and am) still concerned about these highly mismatched compressor/turbine combinations offered in some of these stock frame turbos. Wouldn't having a big compressor wheel and a small turbine wheel mean for some very high exhaust back pressure and delta P across the turbo and across the engine under boost? It may work great for guys looking to post a dyno sheet on a forum and then hit boost for 10secs or less a few times a year. But will such a setup take the abuse of roadracing? If such a setup was acceptable or reliable, why doesn't any of the OEM turbo manufactures offer such mismatched options?

Anybody given any thought to the downsides of a mismatched compressor/turbine stock frame turbo from a reliability standpoint?

Balrok

iTrader: (15)

Awesome sig

boomn29

iTrader: (47)

I can't speak to the compressor/exhaust setup. I honestly am not that up-to-date on what's what. I just read dyno sheets and suggested/projected output at certain psi and have talked to owners about powerband and lag. The 2 I mentioned are ones I'm considering if I jump classes again in 2012 and I'd be aiming around 400whp.

Agreed; I just read it!

As for Putnam....
93oct; 316whp AMS tuned. First time out on my new AST's this year on 245 Z1's in 36 degree weather - I was pretty happy with it. Vid below. Don't get me wrong, sub 1:20's on that track are moving! Congrats! You could probably do low 18's on Hoosiers.
I went back in May with Hoosier's and my 100oct tune in full NASA TTA trim and laid down a 1:15.7 in the only truely dry session - there's more in it if I stop cording the LF tire...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQrdqVEZLMc

Balrok

iTrader: (15)

I agree most of us that track have much more success with stock frame turbo reliability then other newer T frame turbo's. It's simply not worth the extra weight/cost (maybe lighter depending) with such proven results, one of the only reasons you haven't found the answer thus far. For a stroker i'd also agree the OEM configured turbo will be out of breath, so an FP White/Green BBK would fit perfectly. I think even the smaller T3's would end up making too much power for us, but if your not restricted by rules by all means the new EFR's.

Off Topic, Modified

Evorace 2:14 - The path of Evo is beset on all sides by the injustice of the spec miata and the Plague of the Corvette drivers. But blessed is he who in the name of disparity overwhelmeth the V8's in the valley of turn 1. For he is truly his car's driver, the finder of lost grip. And I shall strike down upon thee with great shifts and furious rev matching those who attempt to obstruct or delay my overtaking and you will know I am All Wheel Drive when I lay my corner exit upon thee.

jid2

iTrader: (62)

I would look at the GTX3076R.

My GT3076R has been great on my 2.3L, I would not go FP on a road race car, but the BBK's seem to do well on them.

ktk

iTrader: (9)

So boomn29, I just watched your video. I am derailing my own thread but its too cool to ignore.

First of all, badass video you were hauling ***! I want to do that!

I watched the video a bunch of times trying to catch differences in your line compared to mine. Your race seat blocks my view of dead bear line! In any case there are a few differences I see right off the bat. Do you mind if I ask you some Q's on how to improve my driving at Putnam? Don't worry if you don't want to give away your competitive secrets you can tell me to go to hell I'll understand

I just really want to improve and pretty much everything I know I have had to figure out on my own. When I asked for instructors and all I ever get ever are guys who say I'm doing fine "keep it up" some other generic comments. I don't get any useful tips on how to get faster, the last instructor I took out told me I was extracting everything the car has to offer driving wise, he even offered to buy my car and then kicked me up to the advanced group but no tips on how to improve!

Before braking for turn 1 what top speed are you hitting in the front straight? It looks like you stay outside and go in deep and then turn in for a late apex at 1 and then track out and turn in for an early apex at 2? PM me back if you are cool with sharing tips


Back on topic though. So is the experience here that stock housing turbos are capable of dealing with track day abuse and daily driver status? I would have to go back from the current T3 mani to a stock cast mani to even consider that route which kind of sucks... My car is definately not built to any spec, it was built as a street car daily. I overbuilt the hell out of everything because it is my only car and needs to be reliable despite the heaviest abuse or combination track days, highway fun, and tiny 1.5 mile commute with cold start.


balrok nice modification to my sig hahaha


jid2 just saw your post do you have any dyno prints on 93 octane? If not what are the spool characteristics like on the 2.3L? Just some general driving impressions?

RJones

iTrader: (5)

I definitely wouldn't go with a stock turbo on a 2.3 setup... (not sure if you were actually considering it or not). I'm currently running a stock turbo on my 2.3 and it's great down low but it falls off hard up top. I'm making peak power (370whp on a mustang dyno) at about 4800rpm, but then at redline I'm all the way down at 300whp. It's an autocross car, so it's not a huge deal for me, but on track I know you'll be kicking yourself in the pants.

For a T3 setup, I've heard great things from many about the Garrett GT30 series, with the most recent being the GTX307x.

For stock frame, a BBK-Full or even BBK-B would be a great option. The BBK-Lite would run out pretty fast like the stock turbo.
The great thing about having a 2.3 is that the spool is a few rpm sooner, so you can get a bigger turbo without affecting the spool all too much.

ktk

iTrader: (9)

Thanks for all the comments so far guys. Quick spool and low end torque were my reasons for going with a 2.3L. I have no restriction on top end power though my car would probably fall into some ridiculous class like TTU anyways, so perhaps I was on track with the GTX3076 idea. My engine and drivetrain are built to hold 700whp reliably and I run about half that for longevity and reliability sake. Nothing kills engines like revs and to keep piston speed in a safe 25m/s area I shift at 7000 on track and never take it above 7700.

Who here has experience with a GT30 series turbo? What A/R would you guys recommend for my application? Any info or dyno plots on 93 octane with strokers?

boomn29

iTrader: (47)

Thx for the props. I'll PM ya...

Yep, if you go over 8.7:1 modified power/weight ratio then you'll be in TTU. Depending on tire size and weight, if you want to squeeze into TTS; low 400's is going to be your max.

skidmarq

iTrader: (6)

But you'll be giving up rubber to get there, no?

I was doing some calculations for my long term plan (NASA TTS), and a 3000 pound Evo will be limited to around 365-370WHP on 275 R888s/NT01s. If you go the Hoosier route, then your power is going to be limited to the 315-320WHP range...of course if you go the 245 width NT01 route then you can get a bit over 400WHP as boomn29 stated...don't have the exact numbers in front of me at the moment so I'm going by memory.

kyoo

iTrader: (29)

you may really want to consider the hks 7460r or i bb green? the hks spools faster than stock

goforwand

iTrader: (132)

You can run DOT Hoosiers without penalty; it's only when you change to non-DOT slicks (Hoosier or otherwise) that you will get hit.

boomn29

iTrader: (47)

It depends on how competitive you want to be. But I can say that with a 245 NT01, you'll never be Nationally competitive. Even a 275 NT01/R888 is going to be left in the dust no matter your power level I think. However, it's definitely a cheaper option and you could supplement the use of those to save HC's on your Hoosier/Hankook/BFG, etc. All you see at Nationals and the competitive regional levels are Hoosier A6's. We've got guys at the Regional level that pedal out multiple sets of stickered A6's EACH DAY.

I've said it before; you've got basically 2 options with TTS. Go aftermarket turbo and more weight. Or go light as hell and keep the stocker. It's really that simple. There's some fine tuning with tire and specific weight, but still.

Here's some legal numbers based on weights at either end of the spectrum. You can easily make 361whp on the stocker. And you can get a good curve with 418whp on an aftermarket. You're choice...

Weight - 245 - 275
3051 - 379 - 361
3301 - 418 - 395