I watched this from a few miles down. I had no idea this post was here and that car was yours. First thoughts after watching the crash were of the drivers and their safety. We didnt have a radio but we asked the closest people to us with one if we could listen in. Any serious crash like this would bring an emotional response from the die hard spectator, but something about the drivers being apart of the mitsu community really struck deep. Its an extremely large relief knowing the guys are ok. Its tragic the car is destroyed but in the end a human life saved, especially a friend, is worth any material item. Build another car, and tackle the mountain with a vengeance.

 

Not true - look at the pics closer. This car raced with two occupants, Jeremy driving and Yuri calling out the notes in the passenger seat. Honestly at Pikes Peak running with a navvie is a huge help at least your first year, and I personally find it helpful even in my 6th year.

Think about trying to run the Nurburgring flat out after only 2 partial runs in different sections of the course at speed...and that doesn't have nearly as many corners as PPIHC, and there are guardrails lining that whole course!

Dave

 

First off, awesome build and congrats on running the hill, even if it did end the way it did. The car was blistering fast all weekend. I have been watching this build off and on the last few months and it was sad to see if off course like it did. We were down at George's corner above the Cove and took the picture of the engine fire posted on the last page. The fire on the firewall, and was raging for the few seconds we saw it. When it passed, it didn't really smell like oil, but rather like ATF. Is it a possibility that the power steering was affected?

Here is another picture taken near the apex, and it shows the hue of flame as well.. I ought to upload the rest of my vids from the weekend too. I think my vid shows the car rip by.



Regardless, excellent car. Hope to see another EvoDynamics at the peak soon.

-Hank

 

Thought I'd share this post from another forum discussing the crash and the pics - thought it might be interesting for those who don't follow rally events on a regular basis to see that this sort of crash is somewhat common:

Dave

 

Dang someone beat me to it, but I was going to say Kev, I was emailing the Editor-In-Chief of autoblog and got you a mention.

-Acree

 

i think its time to call myth busters to build a rally spec cage and throw it off that turn and see how well it fares i would bet its not nearly as well as you guys think it will.

 

FYI Latvala after the 2009 portugal crash, runned the next event with a same car...

Rolling down is not a clear cut to say it is a most dangerous roll or accident. Rolling in 45% slope or an angle takes a lots hard impact away, makes the car roll more but still better then a sudden stop. Imagine the ski jumpers when they jump and land on the slope...
In rally roll accidents are happenning yearly. RKT motors had one Evo flue over/ cut some trees and did a same like your cars years ago , i think In the USRC events somewhere.. If Greg want to comment on it put pictures then you will have it. That car is much more wraped around the cage , but basically everything is attached on it.
Rally cages build based on events where are mostly no run off zones or safety barriers.
So those cages developed in decades with countles of accidents in the enviroment what you guys just run, first time. As i said , hill climbs basically a rally stage (tarmac mostly) nothig more or less.
To questioning the rally cage rigidity and place in hill climbs because of they extra weigh ( maybe 50 lbs, if so...) or not even that vs your design is not really wise, specially when you have no or limited experience in the rally or hill climb car build.
Rollover in the rally is an everyday story. The cages made to save lifes when that happens and the sudden impact ones (which are kills most of the racers)

Some videos just to see how, the nicely build rally cars stay together when accidents happens:

Solberg when they landed on the rock on the roof no slope:

Pastrana high speed crash when you can roll it out.:

this is one of the Evo CT9A chassis rally cage design:


But if you think your cage was stronger and safer then a rally cages, so be it. But i would give a hard thoughts on the codriver helmet, and the stripped shell how good it really was.
I think your cages design is very similar to the auto power one if i am right , with added tubes to the strut tower and gassets. Looks that way through the pictures anyway. Just for comparision.



ps: only reason i wrote this because his comparision commenst on his cage vs the rally cage design. (mythbusters)
So for those who inthe future try to build a cage for hill climbs and rally will not be miss leaded. As far as i can see the OEM strut bar did amazing job to keep things together though.

 

Here is one of the car I have worked with:
http://harrinkuvat.1g.fi/kuvat/RTSmo...us/2.kasausta/

Cages is Custom Cage's and FIA approved.
Photos are from 2007-2008 year and that's only group N-car. Not so powerfull than most of the Pikes Peak evos because rally regulations.
http://www.customcages.co.uk/homepage

My thought is there is never too much cage at the car and pipe welding must be done good also of course.

 

I hope you guys are not discouraged and will try this again. I am so thankful Jeremy and Yuri are alright.

 

I meant Rhys did not have one. And not having a co driver would slow new guys down if they had any sense. Anyone that thinks they are going to beat an experienced guy on a hillclimb on there first try is just plain crazy.

 

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/486878.../#.UC0LNBrNkpp

 

you're comparing this to his wreck?

this one looks like he's rolling down a hill of pillows in comparison!

 

EXACTLY! not even on the same level of energy in the crash.

 

So over the past few days I have read a lot of different opinions from folks with all sorts of racing backgrounds. This has been a very good discussion and a good learning experience for me. I will share some of my thoughts and observations in case anyone cares (probably not! )

- if you move to requiring full FIA rally-spec cages for all competitors, you will kill this race. 80-90% of the cars there this year would not have been allowed.

- if you leave safety completely up to the individuals to decide what is appropriate - you will kill this race. Some people will risk their own safety just to gain a couple seconds. This could cause all sorts of insurance and lawsuit issues if someone gets hurt.

- if the minimum specs for a roll cage for this race were more stringent, and this car was built to those specs - people would STILL be whining that the car was only built to the minimun and it should have been stronger.

- I am very disapointed in KevinD's lack of humility. It wasn't your cage that saved these guys. It was sheer luck/providence/the hand of God - whatever you want to call it. That wreck could happen 10 times and 9 of those these guys would not have walked away. What I would have liked to hear is "we will learn from this incident and take steps to build an even safer car in the future." I don't think I read anything like that yet. . . maybe I missed it.

- if, Godforbid, Rhys had crashed - would folks be chiding him for building an unsafe car? Should Rhys have not been allowed to race this year because his cage was even less sound than the EvoD car? Or should it depend on experience? The more experience you have the lighter cage structure you can run?

- if, as some post had said, it looked like Jeremy was "pushing" it, trying to get the best time possible - then it is solely HIS fault for driving unsafely and past his skill/knowledge level. Every racer has a threshold that they race at in relative "safety". It is a % of the car's capability. Let's use ME for example. At MidOhio on the Pro course my EVO is capable of running a 1:26. I have run there quite a bit and am very familiar with the course. I feel comfortable pushing the car to a 1:30 lap. That's about 95% of the capability. However - if I go to VIR where I have never been before and just get a few recon laps then one hot lap - I will probably run closer to 90% of the car's capability. That's because I am taking it easy because I realize I don't know the track intimately. There are racers like Danny Popp, who after 3 laps around a new track can run 95-97% of the car's potential due to his skill and experience. I know that I can not do that yet so I DIAL IT BACK. That extra 5% of dialing it back translates to a HUGE amount of additional safety. Take my MidOhio example. When I run a 1:29 it feels like I'm ***** to the wall, pushing for everything I have. Doing a 1:36 lap (90%) is like an easy Sunday drive around the countryside - one hand on the steering wheel, one hand holding my Mochaccino. Let's look at that same 5% at Pikes Peak. Let's say the car at 100% is good for a 10:00 pass. The 95% really pushing it hard level would be about 10:30. At the 90% mark were talking about 11:00. Some racers have a "Win at all costs" mentality. Some have a "Finish at all costs" mentality. You can't legislate that with rules. . .

- some have said that hillclimbs are totally different than road racing and people should have hillclimb background before racing PP. As far as I can tell, the only difference is that in one race the start and finish line are at the same point and in the other race they are at different points. You are still in the same car and have the same traction circle that varies with course conditions. As long as you drive within your limits it is no different. I equate it to One Lap of America where over the course of a week you race at about 10 tracks you've never seen before. You get two recon laps, then one hot lap. Back to my point above - it's all about staying within your skill/knowledge level.

- I know some accomplished hill-climbers who have found it hard to keep their car on the track at places like . . . umm . . . oh let's say . . . Autobahn

- if a car, leading up to the race, has had two failed power steering lines and leaking oil lines, some team managers and/or drivers would have pulled the car from the race due to safety concerns. That would be a very tough decision.


These are just some random thoughts I've had over the past several days. I'm not claiming I am right on any of them, just my current thoughts and opinions based on the limited info I've read. I am sure some of them will change over time as I continue to learn more both about this incident and safety/cages in general. . .

 

X2 here. KevinD has done all the work to my autocross car (see signature below) but if ever I decide to go NASA or dedicated track, Kevin will be building my cage no question about it.