Track pad help for a rookie(noob)
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Track pad help for a rookie(noob)
so next month i will be beginning my adventure into the HPDE/racing world with hopes of working towards my TT license.
i started another thread here, but have gotten a little info but...
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ml#post9943773
i consider myself well read on both my evo and how to set it up but ive hit a point where i need some practical input.
the important stuff:
full weight evo 9 se
bilsteins w/ gtworx springs
whiteline F/R sways
350-375whp
brake cooling ducts
ATE super blue fluid
currently 235 width star specs, but will be moving to 255's this summer
currently stock rotors, but will be moving to girodisc directional slotted's this summer
would titanium shims be worth it?
what id like to do is come up with a setup that serves to give a rookie good confidence so that i dont even need to think about fade.
as far as speeds that will be involved, im not sure. someone may be able to provide insight based on the track list. i will be running Lime Rock, Watkins Glen, NJMP and possibly monticello.
first question is, how are people setting up pads front to rear? matching all corners? decent street pad in back race in front? i know this is a loaded question since it starts to bring brake balance/bias/personal preference into the mix.
at this point i am leaning towards either the CL RC5+ or RC6 pads based on what ive read.
my concerns are, will the RC6 be too much pad for my 235's? or even just too much pad for me, maybe the rc5+ would better suite 235's?
im open to any and all input on the entire setup and possible pads to use
i started another thread here, but have gotten a little info but...
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ml#post9943773
i consider myself well read on both my evo and how to set it up but ive hit a point where i need some practical input.
the important stuff:
full weight evo 9 se
bilsteins w/ gtworx springs
whiteline F/R sways
350-375whp
brake cooling ducts
ATE super blue fluid
currently 235 width star specs, but will be moving to 255's this summer
currently stock rotors, but will be moving to girodisc directional slotted's this summer
would titanium shims be worth it?
what id like to do is come up with a setup that serves to give a rookie good confidence so that i dont even need to think about fade.
as far as speeds that will be involved, im not sure. someone may be able to provide insight based on the track list. i will be running Lime Rock, Watkins Glen, NJMP and possibly monticello.
first question is, how are people setting up pads front to rear? matching all corners? decent street pad in back race in front? i know this is a loaded question since it starts to bring brake balance/bias/personal preference into the mix.
at this point i am leaning towards either the CL RC5+ or RC6 pads based on what ive read.
my concerns are, will the RC6 be too much pad for my 235's? or even just too much pad for me, maybe the rc5+ would better suite 235's?
im open to any and all input on the entire setup and possible pads to use
Last edited by killerpenguin21; Feb 6, 2012 at 09:41 AM.
I run two different compounds front to rear at the moment, but will be going to the same all around. I'm currently using Raybestos ST-43s up front and Carbotech XP8s out back. Once I kill the ST's I'll be going back to Carbo's up front (xp10's) with the in idea of running them in the rear when I need a new set. Def go with a track pad front and rear.
I'm not sure about you having to much brake for 235's, but if you plan on moving to 255's soon, you should be fine.
As for rotors, I use whatever. You're gonna destroy them anyways.
I'm not sure about you having to much brake for 235's, but if you plan on moving to 255's soon, you should be fine.
As for rotors, I use whatever. You're gonna destroy them anyways.
I've always kept the same compounds all around personally.
I've been running Hawk DTC's for years, but that's definitely too much pad for you - although I can manage them when I track with my 245 StarSpecs personally. I absolutely hate the ST43's as well - horrible to manage and take forever to come up to temp (I'm in the minority on the ST43's fwiw).
A lot of people are going the CL route. I haven't tried them; I'm very happy with my Hawk setup.
You've got ducts you said - ran from the front then? What fluid; better be upgraded! SRF, AMSOIL DOT4 & Motul 660 are the best (in descending order).
I've been running Hawk DTC's for years, but that's definitely too much pad for you - although I can manage them when I track with my 245 StarSpecs personally. I absolutely hate the ST43's as well - horrible to manage and take forever to come up to temp (I'm in the minority on the ST43's fwiw).
A lot of people are going the CL route. I haven't tried them; I'm very happy with my Hawk setup.
You've got ducts you said - ran from the front then? What fluid; better be upgraded! SRF, AMSOIL DOT4 & Motul 660 are the best (in descending order).
Since you haven't been on track yet.... I don't think you'll experience much lock up if any with race pads and street tires. For a novice I believe it is nice to have a little more pad than you need for the tire you are running. One guy you may want to seek out on here is JDavenport. I know he was running Carbotech XP12's w/ Star Specs and didn't lock em up, going from 140 to under 60 downhill at Road Atlanta.
One thing you're overlooking as I re-read your other thread and this one is I don't see mention of SS brake lines or high temp fluid. Those should be on your list for prep as well. That, coupled with good brake ducts should keep a nice firm peddle with minimal fade. If at all you feel like your brakes are starting to fade, take a few cool down laps get them bake within op temps.
When shopping for pads I really can only tell you one to never use.... EBC Blue's. I got a set new for a great deal ($180 for f & r) to try them, they are horrible in the confidence area.
One thing you're overlooking as I re-read your other thread and this one is I don't see mention of SS brake lines or high temp fluid. Those should be on your list for prep as well. That, coupled with good brake ducts should keep a nice firm peddle with minimal fade. If at all you feel like your brakes are starting to fade, take a few cool down laps get them bake within op temps.
When shopping for pads I really can only tell you one to never use.... EBC Blue's. I got a set new for a great deal ($180 for f & r) to try them, they are horrible in the confidence area.
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I use the same compounds all around, I ran Hawk 9012s all last season and they were a good compliment to Star Specs. I'm going to DTC60s this season. I wouldn't worry too much about the rotors as grillpt said, you are going to gut them anyway. I had Brembo slotted/drilled rotors and I don't recommend drilled rotors, they start to crack early. I've swapped to DBA 5000 slotted. Make sure you run some good brake fluid and you'll be good to go. Chances are good it will be a full season before you are coming even close to the braking limits of your tires/pads.
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I've always kept the same compounds all around personally.
I've been running Hawk DTC's for years, but that's definitely too much pad for you - although I can manage them when I track with my 245 StarSpecs personally. I absolutely hate the ST43's as well - horrible to manage and take forever to come up to temp (I'm in the minority on the ST43's fwiw).
A lot of people are going the CL route. I haven't tried them; I'm very happy with my Hawk setup.
You've got ducts you said - ran from the front then? What fluid; better be upgraded! SRF, AMSOIL DOT4 & Motul 660 are the best (in descending order).
I've been running Hawk DTC's for years, but that's definitely too much pad for you - although I can manage them when I track with my 245 StarSpecs personally. I absolutely hate the ST43's as well - horrible to manage and take forever to come up to temp (I'm in the minority on the ST43's fwiw).
A lot of people are going the CL route. I haven't tried them; I'm very happy with my Hawk setup.
You've got ducts you said - ran from the front then? What fluid; better be upgraded! SRF, AMSOIL DOT4 & Motul 660 are the best (in descending order).
I use the same compounds all around, I ran Hawk 9012s all last season and they were a good compliment to Star Specs. I'm going to DTC60s this season. I wouldn't worry too much about the rotors as grillpt said, you are going to gut them anyway. I had Brembo slotted/drilled rotors and I don't recommend drilled rotors, they start to crack early. I've swapped to DBA 5000 slotted. Make sure you run some good brake fluid and you'll be good to go. Chances are good it will be a full season before you are coming even close to the braking limits of your tires/pads.
the thing that looked good to me about the CL pads is that they are sintered, and will be hard enough to clean deposits off when i swap pads, but will heat up nice and quick when i need.
other piece of info that has been eluding me is whether even in the back, will the magics/stoptech streets can take the heat.
this thread sparked a couple pm's about parts people have for sale, how do people feel about used pads? would be a good way i could try 2 different pads for the price of one.
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I use used parts.
Pads - it is not like you can break a brake pad. As long as it has enough material left on it and it has not been overheated (it will crumble significantly around the edges in that case and you'd see it on the pictures). You'd want clean the surface by rubbing it against some sandpaper to remove the groves from the previous rotor so that the pads seat properly to your rotor (I run all my pads with sandpaper whenever I swap to ensure proper pad break in and transfer and to remove groves to keep the rotors from developing groves)
Rotor Discs - you want to make sure you are not close to min-disk thickness, that they are not warped and that you don't have any significant cracks on it (especially on the inner or outer edge). If a disk has been used at a track, it may have some very slight spider cracks on the swept surface which is normal and nothing to worry about as long as they are not deep. Some people like to turn the disks but I think it is a waste of material. Alternatively if you run the discs on the street long enough the spider cracks will eventually disappear as the disc gets used up.
Brake fluid - you never want to use used - always new factory sealed bottle.
Shims - just a piece of metal. Unless they are significantly warped or bent out of shape, you can't really break that part. Other than being dirty, a used shim is like a new one.
SS lines - used should be good but proper visual inspection for any damage will be required. Good to know how they have been used in the past as well (too many years of track heat may not be a good choice)
Pads - it is not like you can break a brake pad. As long as it has enough material left on it and it has not been overheated (it will crumble significantly around the edges in that case and you'd see it on the pictures). You'd want clean the surface by rubbing it against some sandpaper to remove the groves from the previous rotor so that the pads seat properly to your rotor (I run all my pads with sandpaper whenever I swap to ensure proper pad break in and transfer and to remove groves to keep the rotors from developing groves)
Rotor Discs - you want to make sure you are not close to min-disk thickness, that they are not warped and that you don't have any significant cracks on it (especially on the inner or outer edge). If a disk has been used at a track, it may have some very slight spider cracks on the swept surface which is normal and nothing to worry about as long as they are not deep. Some people like to turn the disks but I think it is a waste of material. Alternatively if you run the discs on the street long enough the spider cracks will eventually disappear as the disc gets used up.
Brake fluid - you never want to use used - always new factory sealed bottle.
Shims - just a piece of metal. Unless they are significantly warped or bent out of shape, you can't really break that part. Other than being dirty, a used shim is like a new one.
SS lines - used should be good but proper visual inspection for any damage will be required. Good to know how they have been used in the past as well (too many years of track heat may not be a good choice)
Glad to hear you are getting into road racing/TT!
Here are some of my experiences over my years of racing:
The 235 Star Specs are fine for starting out. They grip well in dry and wet. They will get greasy as outside temps increase and you begin to push them harder. The new hot tire is the Hankook RS3. I use them on my TTC car and they are awesome! Cheaper than the Star Specs and they can take tons of abuse.
I have the Ti shims on my front rotors. Did not see any improvement in braking/temps. I use an infrared pyrometer to check rotor and caliper temps. I would not recommend buying them, unless you have $$$ sitting around.
Glad to see you have the brake cooling ducts. This is the single best mod I have ever done to my car. I can go an entire 30min session in the Texas heat without brake fade.
About brake pads, I don't recommend running different compounds front and rear. It just complicates things. I am only familiar with Hawk products because they sponsor NASA TT events. I run Hawk HP Blue pads with 235 Hankook RS3's and I rely pretty heavily on the ABS for the rear tires. But, I practically stand on the brake pedal, so that is expected. I tried the Hawk DTC70's with my Star Specs, and I locked them up at every braking zone A full-on track pad should only be used with R-compound tires or slicks. I recommend starting out with a medium track pad, and then moving up when you change to a stickier tire. You will find out pretty quickly if your pads are a good match for your tires/driving style.
I would stick with buying new stuff. I have learned from experience to spend the money early to buy the right stuff from the start. No use buying something cheap, then having to replace it very quickly because it doesn't work or it breaks.
Here are some of my experiences over my years of racing:
The 235 Star Specs are fine for starting out. They grip well in dry and wet. They will get greasy as outside temps increase and you begin to push them harder. The new hot tire is the Hankook RS3. I use them on my TTC car and they are awesome! Cheaper than the Star Specs and they can take tons of abuse.
I have the Ti shims on my front rotors. Did not see any improvement in braking/temps. I use an infrared pyrometer to check rotor and caliper temps. I would not recommend buying them, unless you have $$$ sitting around.
Glad to see you have the brake cooling ducts. This is the single best mod I have ever done to my car. I can go an entire 30min session in the Texas heat without brake fade.
About brake pads, I don't recommend running different compounds front and rear. It just complicates things. I am only familiar with Hawk products because they sponsor NASA TT events. I run Hawk HP Blue pads with 235 Hankook RS3's and I rely pretty heavily on the ABS for the rear tires. But, I practically stand on the brake pedal, so that is expected. I tried the Hawk DTC70's with my Star Specs, and I locked them up at every braking zone
A full-on track pad should only be used with R-compound tires or slicks. I recommend starting out with a medium track pad, and then moving up when you change to a stickier tire. You will find out pretty quickly if your pads are a good match for your tires/driving style.I would stick with buying new stuff. I have learned from experience to spend the money early to buy the right stuff from the start. No use buying something cheap, then having to replace it very quickly because it doesn't work or it breaks.
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as far as ss lines, ive read mixed things and hadnt really planned on running them just yet. is everyone running them?
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The 235 Star Specs are fine for starting out. They grip well in dry and wet. They will get greasy as outside temps increase and you begin to push them harder. The new hot tire is the Hankook RS3. I use them on my TTC car and they are awesome! Cheaper than the Star Specs and they can take tons of abuse.
also, define medium track pad lol
The Blue is a middle-of-the-road track pad. See here:
http://www.hawkperformance.com/motor...cations/gt.php
Side note: Looks like Hawk's website actually gives recommendations for split pads F-R. Seems weird to me, but I'm not a brake manufacturer.
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Yup, I recommend the Blue 9012s, it's what I ran all season last year and they were well matched to Star Specs. You can brake harder than the tire compound with Star Specs, but that can teach good habits too.
