Not hear to argue my opinion based on speaking w/2 EVO suspension experts on the FSB

But I did inquire w/another EVO owner whose car is fully track prepped. He has every suspension bit & has chosen to leave FSB stock except for adding the secondary mounting hole.

Im still convinced that Robi & Mueller are correct. You can add more FSB & think its doing more but, in reality, it likely is not

Watch this VID of this EVO w/stock FSB sling around Millers track in Utah. Its a good Vid. Car is FS

 

Thanks for valuable insight.

So are you stating, pardon for being uncertain, that Robi and John M. Do not use larger front sway bars, as rule?
Of course there could be am exception.

Robi offers one.

What I am dwelling on is if the modest increase, front 24mm to 26mm, rear 22mm to 25mm (adjustable to nearly back to stock stiffness),
Which are ~10% increase in thickness and therefore only ~20% in stiffness, is more detrimental than beneficial all things considered.

To be safe, Cusco adjustable bracket and/or exrea hole on OEM front can give some "tuning knob".

My purpose was to flatten the chassis, to increase grip by loading more inside tires.
Nothing else. I would like to achieve more grip without detrimental effects on any other chassis characteristic.

 

Personally, I don't think just because a company offers a certain product means they endorse or advise the use of it (especially for all situations). Companies are out to make money so if there's a market for something and they can offer a good option, they'll be likely to sell it.

I understand this specific situation leans a bit more towards endorsement since the product is branded as the company's own, and the company is known for setting up extremely capable race suspensions. But I still don't take that to mean that the owners would say you, your driving style, and your car setup would benefit from a stiffer FSB.

That said, the Robispec FSB of old (I believe it was discontinued for a while, though I assume the new/ current one is the same) actually had one set of holes which was softer than stock, one set which was stiffer. It's not talked about much on here, but you can actually adjust only one side of the swaybar at a time to get more gradual increments. So, as an example, you could set the driver's side set to full stiff and passenger side to full soft which could provide a stiffness roughly equal to stock.

 

So I understand the importance of balance and matching the front with the rear. My question remains though...if I already have a RSB can I get away with the stock swaybar by leveraging a combination of the DIY drilling mod as well as some adjustable brackets?

Im at a crossroads right now where IM not sure if I should just throw on my stock RSB or purchase some brackets and see where that gets me.

 

I am about decided to drill stock FSB and try incremental change that way
Without going against the now developed wisdom of keeping stock.

I have not seen many track Evos with bigger bars on front
And love the way mine works
Driver needs improvement first anyway

 

I think Robi and John are smart business people (I get along with both of them), they build and recommend set-ups for how people actually drive. My set-ups were built for how they should drive. They are both still in business, I am not, I was fighting a loosing battle the entire time but that's all OK, two different philosophies one (rightly) based on track day driving levels and one based on pro level drivers (and not many people are).

When I recently raced in Grand AM I found the same thing, I would get in a car and find it too stiff and too oversteery with way too aggressive brake pads (more more more!) and the car could barely finishing the top 20. Change the set-up back to the way it should be and the car was on the podium a few races later (without adding a single HP).

Did the same thing to the AMS TA car and list list goes on and on, just about every car I have jumped in is set up too stiff and aggressive to be fast... they feel fast to the uninitiated but they ultimately are not.

 

^Whoa, he actually still post here!

 

quoting this for its awesomeness.

 

Paul

Golden words. I want to follow successful expert, not patch my own issues/inadequacies.
And since I have a perfect platform setup by you, will first learn to exploit it, and if anything eventually seems less than optimal-ask you for guidance if I should find that I cannot improve without potentially changing something.

The way you explained it, it make sense like never before.
Thank you.

 

I suspect a lot of it among other things will depend on set-up, eg. ACD reprogram and rear diff upgrade. The Ralliart Italy set-up that suggests massive swaybars has both .... and there is tarmac rally vs. road course ... the former likely having much softer spring rates.

 

Car set up is certainly an influence, my point though is that some one good at trail braking can put more vertical load on the outside front necessitating higher front spring rates and/or thicker bars and can still make the car rotate into the corner while an untrained driver would complain of chronic understeer with that same set-up.

To add Autox credibility to my set-ups, Mark Daddio and I shared the AMS EVO, he is one of the best Autocrossers of all time and we were in lockstep agreement on set-ups... he ran giant bars on his personal autocross EVO front and rear.

 

Thanks for that explanation. That explains what I have always felt and how I'd like to set up my cars ... but I was never able to put words to that.

Makes me more sure in my decision to install that FSB.

Really appreciate all your input here over the years.

 

I agree with the noted posts below on increasing the rate of the FSB

Ill be adding adjustable end links to my OEM FSB & have increased my spring rates to 12K / 14K on re-valved coilovers

Ive got enough issues w/rear tripoding, dont need that condition of up front as well

 

My data derived changed have lead me to this same conclusion. In theory, absolute max grip occured with the same roll rates but much higher spring/bar ratios. Problem is that gave horrible results as soon as you hit a bump. Going big bar and softer rates for the same roll rate made the car so much easier to drive and faster on our ****ty NW lots.

 

What makes you think that adding a FSB will cause wheel lift on your front end? I understand that a sway bar will limit independent wheel movement but if its matched well to your setup it shouldn't be an issue. The rear bar will help keep the front down and the front will help the back.

I'm trying to figure out if combining a modded stock bar as well as an adjustable bracket, if I can get enough stiffness to play nicely with my Perrin 25mm RSB...If I can get away with that, I would be thrilled as it'll certainly save me a couple hundred bucks not needing a new front bar but I also wont have to go through the hassle of the install.