Trackable Evo- Sway Bar upgrade
The rule should be weigh your car and do the math. Set rear N.F. at or just above front. The problem with listening to everyone's advice is not all cars are the same. Ive noticed a big difference in a lot of cars weight coming from the rear depending on spec and weight reduction.
My car is square on springs and has just a slightly higher rear N.F., but my car also weighs 3080 with very minimal weight reduction because its an SE. An SSL might have 200lbs more weight and carry all of that in the middle and rear of the car.
If you do not have a good alignment then there is no reason to even talk about this stuff.
I have run many setup on those coilovers. With a 255 R1S i would run 10k front 12k rear with a FSB and stock or soft setting in the rear. That is plenty of spring for that tire unless you are on some super smooth tracks or have some good aero.
Do not discredit what the Auto-x'er say. Alot of this stuff carries over to tracks.
I have run many setup on those coilovers. With a 255 R1S i would run 10k front 12k rear with a FSB and stock or soft setting in the rear. That is plenty of spring for that tire unless you are on some super smooth tracks or have some good aero.
Do not discredit what the Auto-x'er say. Alot of this stuff carries over to tracks.
Last edited by jerdeitzel; Jan 24, 2014 at 08:24 AM.
As long as you can keep both rear tires on the ground during corner exit, I don't see why having a softer rear spring is a bad thing on the track.
Our cars our quite light in the rear and all of the easy weight to remove is in the rear of the car. Why would we want to decrease grip by putting a spring that "matches" the front when the issues on the front of the car are entirely different?
On turn-in, is it not the objective to have the front outside suspension compress an entire length to near bumpstop for maximum grip/weight transfer to the loaded tire? So, size the spring/valving/sway to accomplish that for a set tire and then try to achieve the same thing in the rear on corner exit.
Keeping the car flat with stiff springs and swaybars seems to be counter-productive to loading up the loaded tires whether it is the front or the back.
I would think that the front springs should be sized for the weight the front of the car throws around at turn-in and the rear springs would be sized around the torque/rpm/gear at corner-exit that you would expect at a track. Not necessarily the currently assumed standard of getting the front/rear rate to line up when taking into account the rear LCA is a lever arm.
Our cars our quite light in the rear and all of the easy weight to remove is in the rear of the car. Why would we want to decrease grip by putting a spring that "matches" the front when the issues on the front of the car are entirely different?
On turn-in, is it not the objective to have the front outside suspension compress an entire length to near bumpstop for maximum grip/weight transfer to the loaded tire? So, size the spring/valving/sway to accomplish that for a set tire and then try to achieve the same thing in the rear on corner exit.
Keeping the car flat with stiff springs and swaybars seems to be counter-productive to loading up the loaded tires whether it is the front or the back.
I would think that the front springs should be sized for the weight the front of the car throws around at turn-in and the rear springs would be sized around the torque/rpm/gear at corner-exit that you would expect at a track. Not necessarily the currently assumed standard of getting the front/rear rate to line up when taking into account the rear LCA is a lever arm.
Basically, the philosophy of this car:
http://www.allpar.com/racing/high-mighty.html
But in relation to cornering.
Alternatively, can you explain the basis of spring/sway bar selection beyond relative spring rates?
Edit: I am not advocating raising the center of mass of the car. I have been told that Spec Miatas try to size their springs so that they just barely touch their bump stops at their max cornering. As such, I haven't seen anything on this forum yet that explains the philosophy behind spring selection beyond "rear is a lever so get higher spring in back."
http://www.allpar.com/racing/high-mighty.html
But in relation to cornering.
Alternatively, can you explain the basis of spring/sway bar selection beyond relative spring rates?
Edit: I am not advocating raising the center of mass of the car. I have been told that Spec Miatas try to size their springs so that they just barely touch their bump stops at their max cornering. As such, I haven't seen anything on this forum yet that explains the philosophy behind spring selection beyond "rear is a lever so get higher spring in back."
Last edited by nollij; Jan 24, 2014 at 10:44 PM.
Basically, the philosophy of this car:
http://www.allpar.com/racing/high-mighty.html
But in relation to cornering.
Alternatively, can you explain the basis of spring/sway bar selection beyond relative spring rates?
Edit: I am not advocating raising the center of mass of the car. I have been told that Spec Miatas try to size their springs so that they just barely touch their bump stops at their max cornering. As such, I haven't seen anything on this forum yet that explains the philosophy behind spring selection beyond "rear is a lever so get higher spring in back."
http://www.allpar.com/racing/high-mighty.html
But in relation to cornering.
Alternatively, can you explain the basis of spring/sway bar selection beyond relative spring rates?
Edit: I am not advocating raising the center of mass of the car. I have been told that Spec Miatas try to size their springs so that they just barely touch their bump stops at their max cornering. As such, I haven't seen anything on this forum yet that explains the philosophy behind spring selection beyond "rear is a lever so get higher spring in back."
For example, Im liking 2.6hz front and 2.75hz rear with right around 30% roll stiffness from the bars. Of course, that seems to change a couple times a year as I try and learn new stuff.
at the upper end of the stiffness scale you're limited by how bumpy your racing surface is (tires have pretty low grip when they don't touch the ground) or how stiff your tire sidewalls are (shocks have to move to provide damping).
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