Describing a product as "sucking donkey dick" is about anyone should need to deduce the quality of the review.

 

My rotors often hit 1300F+ with ATE Super Blue without issue, not sure what hispanicpanic is talking about.

 

please tell me more about how the heat generated from a stock brake pad exceeds the heat from a track pad.

 

I also drive an X which weighs 300 lbs more than your 9. I put a lot more energy in the form of heat into the brakes in one turn than you.

Bottom line here, and i think anyone reading this thread must pay incredibly ****ing close attention to, is that the evo 9 and 10 are two completely different cars. When considering the brakes, they are miles different, and what works for one platform will fail terribly on the other.

Here's a test to see if anyone knows anything about X brakes: Ask him if he recommends Hawk pads for the track (non dtc). If the answer is yes, ignore everything he's ever told you.

 

evo x use same front pads as evo 8/9, but the front rotors are larger. more leverage for braking and more mass to absorb and dissipate heat.

pad compound is dependent on your level of driving and tires. for a de1 student on street tires, there's nothing wrong with using non DTC compound.

 

Wasn't trying to make this into an attack, my apologies if it came across that way.

What you're saying is quite true.

I do think that the stock pads aren't up to the task though, that seems like it might be the weakest link in the equation.

 

A stock pad will fade at pretty low temperatures. Your pad will fade before it gets terribly hot limiting the temperature it will reach. He was implying that your pad was fading and not that your brake fluid was boiling.

Track pads can operate up around 1300-1400°F. So, yes, the track pads will be much hotter than your stock brake pads because they keep working and not slowing you down.

Your brake fluid was likely not boiling. I have used Super Blue/ATE200 and have never had a problem with it boiling.

When I was on stock pads and intermediate pads, my Brembos barely faded color. As soon as I put track pads on, my rotors started crazing and my Brembos went straight to brown.

 

Well when i say my pedal got squishy, i meant it was literally squishy not for a few turns, but indefinitely until i bled the system. The fluid had boiled slightly and air pockets remained in the system untill they were bled. And if i did not bleed, the squishyness of the brake pedal got worse and worse session after session untill modulation was all but nonexistant. In fact, i had the hardest time getting my stock X pads to fade without first boiling the ATE fluid.

 

Though front pads may be the same size (rears are not), the stock X compound is not the same as the stock 9 compound.

DE1 X drivers commonly fade hawk pads. They're honestly terrible for the X. I have a friend with hawk pads on his X, and after running 3 auto-x runs back to back, his pad faded significantly. The stock pads don't even fade that easily. Braking for a few high speed turns in a row, even for a beginner, will cause the pos hawks to vanish. Honestly the only thing the hawk pads have over OEM is initial bite. OEM rips hawk a new one in literally every category, including high heat tolerance.

 

i had a de1 student with slightly moded evo x (more than stock power) on stock pads and tires. he was pretty advance driver for de1, and he said the pedal was through the floor by end of the third session. the only hawk pads i've used are DTC30/60/70, but i've had plenty of students on HPS+ and i don't recall any of them having major fade issues, not all of them were Evos though.

 

Im not saying that you didnt boil your fluid but rather that your issue stems from the pads as opposed to the fluid. Its a little confusing when you think about what temps brake pads can effectively operate relative to brake fluid. A good brake fluid will have a dry boiling point around 550 degrees and track pads can operate at over 1000 degrees. So how is it possible that the brakes can get twice as hot as the fluids boiling point?

This is where things like heat soak come into play hence why ti shims help to act as a barrier to stop the heat from transferring to your fluid and why having proper brake cooling ducts help keep the heat out of the fluid.

I had a situation a few months back where I needed new pads but the ones I wanted were on back order so I said f it and autocrossed with my old pads which had like 40% life left. Sure enough my brakes started fading until I no longer had any pedal pressure. I believe I boiled my fluid at that point but the issue wasnt my fluid but rather the brake pads.

That's all I was getting at with my original comment. Im willing to bet that with proper race pads your fluid will not boil. And if you dont believe me then go buy yourself the best fluid out there Castrol SRF use your stock pads and see how long it takes to boil that fluid. I bet it'll be very similar to your ATE.

 

Driving style, airflow via ducting, brake pad compounds, titanium shims, different rotor designs, tire type used, ambient temps - all these things have an effect.

First of all I've managed to keep ATE blue/type 200 fluid from boiling with my stock Brembo setup because I avoid intentionally abusing the brakes. Sure, if I go out for 25 minutes and go for a time trial paced lap the entire session they aren't going to hold up, but with my setup if you throw in a cooldown lap here and there it really makes a difference. I also tend to "compress" my braking zones to avoid dragging the brakes unless trying to stabilize the car.

Stock brembo calipers
Girodisc 2-piece rotors
Raybestos ST-43 brake pads
3" air ducts dumping air onto back of caliper/rotor
Girodisc Titanium shims
ATE Brake fluid
275/645-18 Pirelli DH slicks (Uses as much brakes as I can throw at it)

All too often I see people boiling their brakes and throwing higher and higher boiling point brake fluid at the problem. You are treating the symptoms and not curing the original issue of producing too much heat! Brake fluid in itself does nothing for keeping temps down in your braking system.

So you see caliper and rotor temps climb higher and higher, paint pealing, rotors cracking, pads burning up faster than ever, but hey, the fluid isn't boiling anymore and it only costs 3-4 times more.

The final answer is to get a Big Brake Kit (BBK) and be done with the limitations of the medium sized stock Brembo brake system that can simply get overwhelmed once you try race paced laps for long periods. If you can't do that then you need to find a combination of cooling and driving style that will keep them in once piece.

My 2 cents.

 

Great insight Chris - I'm running essentially the same setup, minus the slicks and cooling. Ive been eating rotors pretty regularly which is becoming expensive. The Giro Disc rotors seem to last longer than anything else Ive used - but after 7 or so events they seem to be getting to the end of their life.

What kind of life are you seeing out of yours? I plan on adding ducting over the winter to see what effect that has on the overall setup, but its pretty expensive maintaining this setup at the rate I've been going!

Not that its indicative of my braking habits, but I run a low 2:22 at the Glen and mid 1:04's at LRP with 300 whp on BFG Rivals. Ive never had my superblue boil, but like I said its been pretty rough on rotors. Im wondering if part of it may be associated to the time I spent at Thompson this year (~8 or so full days there) and how many heavy braking zones that track has.

 

Thompson eat up brakes and tires.

 

yes thompson east up brakes fast. my temps were MUCH higher than ive ever seen there.

this weekend at t bolt i never saw over 400 at the rotor and 200 at the caliper when measuring as close to coming off the track as possible.