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Let us know how it works out for you. I'm not exactly sure which direction I want to go in, but I need to keep the outside front tire closer to the ground. More rear spring? More rear bar? Less front bar? Will have to do some more trial and error this year.
What do you mean by this "keep the outside front tire closer to the ground"?
I have hard time imagining situation where outside front is not on the ground...
What do you mean by this "keep the outside front tire closer to the ground"?
I have hard time imagining situation where outside front is not on the ground...
Thanks, Fedja. Post fixed. That's what I get for rush browsing while I'm at work.
Let us know how it works out for you. I'm not exactly sure which direction I want to go in, but I need to keep the inside front tire closer to the ground. More rear spring? More rear bar? Less front bar? Will have to do some more trial and error this year.
Now we can talk!!
I am assuming that you lift it while coming out from the corners with lots of throttle...right?
Now, I am not saying this is the case for you, but sometimes being a bit more progressive with throttle application would cure this problem as well. Basically, if you ask a bit too much at that time from the tires with amount of torque you applied through the throttle pedal, inside front is usually one that will suffer. In some cases, a bit less of the rebound in the front would help here as well.
About the bars, you have to know where you are at this moment with those settings and what kind of balance you have. If your car is leaning a lot and that is causing inside front spin, more front bar might be an option. Another thing you need to know is how far up in the air (if any, but probably is) is your inside rear, and depending on that you can chose which way to go.
Without trying to be too smart, I usually try a single adjustment on one end of the car and test it. Make sure adjustment is worthy enough so you can feel the change (you can always go back). Otherwise, it might get lost in the noise and it would take longer time to know how it affected your car. Unless, of course, your name is Mark Dadio, in which case you wouldn't even need any of this and you would just fix the right thing. Well, joking aside, even he goes and test his setups and find the one that works the best for him! This is usually the best advice for any of this!
Let us know how it works out for you. I'm not exactly sure which direction I want to go in, but I need to keep the inside front tire closer to the ground. More rear spring? More rear bar? Less front bar? Will have to do some more trial and error this year.
Around October, I started to look back at pictures of my car at events and noticed that my car was doing something similar - the outside half of the inside front tire seemed to be off the ground:
After I looked back at the pictures and saw that, I thought that I could improve front grip with more of the inside tire on the ground (and hopefully not transferring all of the weight to the outside front). I put the front bar on full stiff (from full soft), got longer rear shocks, and raised the rear ride height (without preloading the rear springs). I'm not sure, in my case, if the inside front lifting is due to not enough roll stiffness or if it was from the rear shocks reaching the droop limit (I had about an inch worth of droop travel in the rear) and upsetting the car. I'll be at a practice event at Crows Landing on Saturday so I'm hoping to see if I'm on the right path to fixing this or not (might bring my camera and ask a friend to take a run while I take photos).
Even F1 pretty much cars do the same thing, it's not something you're really gonna fix. You could mitigate with custom suspension geometry and maybe less body and less static camber, but it will never go away.
Even F1 pretty much cars do the same thing, it's not something you're really gonna fix. You could mitigate with custom suspension geometry and maybe less body and less static camber, but it will never go away.
Well, F1 cars can't spin inside front as we do!!
For situations like this, gentler throttle application makes wonder in some cases...
I know this is not the same car but look at this Focus RS from this past weekend. I too have always wondered how to resolve the issue you guys are talking about. In my setup I think I'm way off and need to dial it in better.
I don't think rear tire lift is necessarily bad. Pushing the inside rear to the ground would just unload the front inside tire more, unless it could increase overall grip. I'm not convinced that it can increase overall grip, though.
I adjusted my suspension to lift the rear inside tire right up until I apply more than maintenance throttle. As soon as I'm moving forward, the rear inside tire is down.
I know this is not the same car but look at this Focus RS from this past weekend. I too have always wondered how to resolve the issue you guys are talking about. In my setup I think I'm way off and need to dial it in better.
Well, to be fair here, RS is doing heavy braking with minimal turning and there is no sign of any acceleration. Our cars do pretty much the same thing when you place them the same way as this one.
Going back to the above picture, if RS stops braking abruptly and quickly floors it, it will most likely get into the same trouble as we were talking about here. But, smooth transition from braking to the acceleration (preferably by using LFB) would not affect balance of the car as much and above mentioned problem will be significantly smaller if there at all.
Well, F1 cars can't spin inside front as we do!!
For situations like this, gentler throttle application makes wonder in some cases...
If it was advantageous to have more tire on the ground, F1 would do it. You could brake harder, and turn harder with more rubber on the ground. Clearly there is a compromise to made with suspension geometry and other things, is what I'm getting at and you're never going to have the inside tire flat on the ground. Less body roll, moar low, and Dallas's knuckles for corrected geometry are likely the answer.
Looks exactly like my car. The torsen up front sends all the power to the wheel in the air and it feels like the clutch is slipping. SMH
looks good, btw, Jim.
Hopefully it'll look better once I get the car dialed in some more
Originally Posted by Construct
I don't think rear tire lift is necessarily bad. Pushing the inside rear to the ground would just unload the front inside tire more, unless it could increase overall grip. I'm not convinced that it can increase overall grip, though.
I adjusted my suspension to lift the rear inside tire right up until I apply more than maintenance throttle. As soon as I'm moving forward, the rear inside tire is down.
I don't think the rear lift is bad either, it's just that part of my inside front is not on the ground when I'm lifting the inside rear. I think having the inside front do some more work would help front grip, but I do wonder what the trade-offs could be (worse balance, worse ride quality, etc.).
Originally Posted by griceiv
more negative camber in the rear coupled with stiffer rear springs will help.
I still have my 1000lb springs, I'll pack them in the car for Saturday. Thanks for the suggestion, Marshall!
Feb 19, 2019, 08:19 AM
I'm not exactly sure which direction I want to go in, but I need to keep the outside front tire closer to the ground. More rear spring? More rear bar? Less front bar? Will have to do some more trial and error this year.
