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I got an offer to get a used/rebuilt Group N Rally KW 3 way adjustable set up. Supppsedly comparable to JRZ 3 way. Includes springs, camber plates, etc. $5k. Assuming all legit, is this solid deal? Apparently a top level competition Motorsport set up.
Install, alignment, and corner balance $875.
I’m not yet familiar with what other race applications are at any price.
If it's actually group N suspension that's not a bad deal, BUT also really doesn't do you much good unless you're planning to build a rally car. All the group N suspension I've ever seen lifts the car a few inches and has some pretty long shock travel and very long springs. Great for racing off road, not too great for circuit use. This is what a typical group N suspension looks like:
Expect to pay $4-6k for good suspension, my Ohlins flags used to cost around $4500 when they made them, and most 2 way adjustable, external reservoir, properly valved coilovers will be a comparative price. Of course there are plenty of companies that offer a similar suspension,
Fortune Auto has their 2 and 3 way dreadnought series which start at around $4k and can get up to about $8k if you fully spec them out I believe.
KW clubsports 3 ways go for about $5k and the 2 ways are about $3800.
Moton 2 ways run about $5500.
Looks like some time attack guys are starting to run Reinharte stuff which I believe is owned by Stance suspension and they offer 3 ways as well.
AST, JRZ, and pretty much every other big suspension name out there sells something of comparable performance for a comparable price.
Nice price summary ayoustin. Thanks for the recap. I think the Group N comparison was the diameter of the shock as mentioned above. Said to be $10,000 new.
Looks pretty similar to the 46mm shock shafts used in my flags. I'm guessing they are similar to the 3 way clubsports just with heavier duty front shocks. You should inquire about their valving and spring rates. If the valving isn't proper for your car you're looking at another grand or so to get them revalved. But if it's all proper then that's not a bad deal.
KW 3-way were sold by Robi in USA, he setup a few cars with them.
There was a setup for sale for $3500 I think few years ago.
KW is Nurburgring company, they do everything for the ring, and this 3-way was developed as Rally setup that is easy to convert to track setup.
Here are the issues, that I see:
$5K is near new price, maybe new 3-way is $5500 now in Germany, or could be negotiated for that money.
The setup you will get has A) old valving which is ok but far from present day B) has modest support in USA (If you were in Germany, awesome)
Finally, you can buy NEW Reiger 3-way starting at Euro 7,000, and so many more setups including Ohlins TTX40 (Gr N) and TTX44 (Track) for starting maybe $7500, and have the latest and greatest built into them.
Probably the Exe-Tc can also be had in 3-way or 4-way for about $7500-8000, starting. New.
Big difference buying new, custom tailored for you and with latest and greatest setup, than used, valved 10 years ago for somebody else for something else.
Furthermore, the Ohlins R&T are really good for the money.
So I find the temptation very small for the KW...the price would have to be better.
Great advice. And input. Have since learned the fronts are new. Should of said this kit was specific to EVO. The guy put a newer set up on his car and had these left over after rebuild. Not sure in the rears as they look worn.
Ill be checking the brands listed in comparison. For me, $5k is already out reach. So the $7-$8k starter kits are further away.
Great advice. And input. Have since learned the fronts are new. Should of said this kit was specific to EVO. The guy put a newer set up on his car and had these left over after rebuild. Not sure in the rears as they look worn.
Ill be checking the brands listed in comparison. For me, $5k is already out reach. So the $7-$8k starter kits are further away.
one other thing to consider is why is the guy getting rid of them to begin with? maybe they dont work too well. and why do u want 3 way adjustable suspension to begin with? maybe start a bit lower. esp if your stretching the budget at 5k already
I think that Ohlins R&T are fantastic value, and PSI at Sonoma Raceway will sell you a set for a song, and are capable of revalving them if you need specific purpose such as much heavier springs etc.
They come with 10/8 springs, you want 10/10 or 10/12 to start with as "track car", and most will go to higher rates depending on tire (stickier = heavier springs), regulations they race in etc.
The fact is you can make a really awesome setup using Ohlins, and although 1-way adjustable, its not a bad thing.
It gives you an opportunity to focus on other aspects of setup and driving, rather than fiddle with damping too much.
Up to certain pretty advanced and fast point, its all we need.
There is an Evo 9 with 2.3 on FP red, dual purpose car from SoCal, that on E85 and 275/35x18 Hoosiers runs 1.34 at Laguna Seca.
For comparison, GT3 Cayman Clubsport in full race setup will do 1.35s...fastest guy(s)- most cannot do that.
This Evo runs Ohlins R&T, Stoptech brakes.
So I think Ohlins R&T are not limiting performance, they are enabling, and thus a fantastic $2K coilover that can be tailored to what you want, and leaves money on the table for other stuff.
KW as mentioned, great if we could depend locally on KW race team, but they rarely visit and local KW team may not know enough to setup Evo setup.
I agree with the Ohlins stuff. Don't have any experience with their R&T coils but based on the quality I've seen on my flags as well as all the good experience I've seen from others with them it's definitely a no brainer for a budget minded track suspension.
Plus I heard someones making things to fix the Ohlin shortcomings
IF you go KW, there is a warehouse/service center here in my town (California). So at least you CAN get things taken care of, if need be. Not my first choice, but decent stuff as long as you have the ClubSport or better.
I run AST and really like them. If I ever go another route it will be Ohlins ... possibly because I'm a loyalist and prefer to stick with that brand. And, like someone mentioned above, "someone" may be making cool stuff for them.
AST 5300 vs Sachs 4 way gr N.... 46 vs 58 mm damper and some 30 mm more travel and more serious (I am guessing at least 30 mm) bump stop travel... if you ever wondered how can they jump... WRC stuf is AT LEAST 250 mm longer still..
Jun 16, 2018, 08:27 AM
