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Old Jul 29, 2018, 03:21 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Dallas J View Post
7 9/16in and 39.7mm are two very different numbers...

Just measured to my seam, its about 6.75"
It's 7 9/16". Auto-correct typo LOL Should be 192mm. Fixed
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Old Jul 29, 2018, 03:22 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by MinusPrevious View Post
^^^Have never seen that lower modification done. I read your note about the helper springs but not sure why the C/O'r needed extending

Now, that Vid was pretty cool. Dont think Ive ever seen that particular shot of the EvO rear susp ACTIVE. Well done
I believe having all 4 wheels on the ground is > 3 being on the ground. Even though I never really hear about the issue but it's probably better for the axles/rear diff not having the wheel lift and drop back onto the ground all the time either. Plus no more 3 wheeling up and down driveways .

p.s I still have wheel lift with the helper spring and mount changes so gotta see what's causing the wheel to lift. Sway bar or maybe arms not having enough movement available for that amount of motion.
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Old Jul 29, 2018, 03:30 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by CaptainSquirts View Post

thanks for the feedback. What would you recommend me doing, higher spring rate in the rear and then soften the rear damper some? It's a daily driver so I wouldn't want anything crazy in spring rates.
Yeah, I would probably be looking at more rear spring if you want to make improvements. Something in the 12-13 maybe. But if you're happy with how it is now, certainly dont feel like you NEED to change it. I just like playing around with different combinations and right now on a stiff rear kick with some of the recent gains we've had.
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Old Aug 2, 2018, 07:31 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Dallas J View Post
Seems like Im pretty much at or beyond the limit of these flags and the crazier the rate the more it seems to matter. I may try and snag a set of 1300s but wont get a chance to test on concrete before nebraska. So, the question is do I just get them and swap in now or leave it all alone and compensate with air pressure at Nats?
Swap em out and send me ur old ones hahaha
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Old Aug 2, 2018, 07:58 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by bee-raddd View Post
Swap em out and send me ur old ones hahaha
No way man, I keep all my old springs cause I inevitably go back and try them again at some point
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Old Aug 2, 2018, 09:54 AM
  #36  
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I also have a nice collection of springs. unfortunately most of em r like 8kg or 10kg etc waay too soft haha

Originally Posted by Dallas J View Post
No way man, I keep all my old springs cause I inevitably go back and try them again at some point
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Old Aug 2, 2018, 10:58 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Dallas J View Post
Yeah, I would probably be looking at more rear spring if you want to make improvements. Something in the 12-13 maybe. But if you're happy with how it is now, certainly dont feel like you NEED to change it. I just like playing around with different combinations and right now on a stiff rear kick with some of the recent gains we've had.
Ended up buying some 12.5k hyperco springs. I didn't only want to go up 1k but was thinking maybe 2k might be a little too much since its a daily driver. So it'll be 10k fronts and 12.5k rear now. I could switch the 11k to the front(I do get some tire roll(even at like 38psi) if I have to do anything like a turn around that requires a lot of steering angle), would going to a heavier spring help with tire roll over at area's that need a lot of steering angle?

I should be able to soften the rear damper now with the heavier spring rates and maybe it'll get rid of that bounciness and keep or even make the rear able to rotate more.

Thoughts?
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Old Aug 2, 2018, 12:48 PM
  #38  
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On another topic, what would help with low speed understeer. Now the cause for me is over driving on low speed corners and that will induce the understeer. Sounds like the fix is obvious, don't over drive it! I get that. What I would like though is change the behavior in that scenario. If I do overdrive, I would prefer it to have less understeer and prefer a more neutral feel so I can somewhat control it with throttle rather than just letting off and hoping the car slows down enough for it to get its grip back or to make it not as bad. I already have a nice chunk of negative camber -3.5, would prefer not to add any toe out, the front sway bar is stock so going heavier would just make it worse and disconnecting it probably wouldn't be wise since I'm only running 10k spring rates in the front. At this point, is the only way to achieve that is to reduce the rear grip?
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Old Aug 2, 2018, 06:54 PM
  #39  
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In my experience, getting the rear to rotate when being over driven on corner entry makes for a car that's hard to drive. Its probably faster, but requires quick hands and feet.
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Old Aug 3, 2018, 12:40 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by CaptainSquirts View Post
On another topic, what would help with low speed understeer. Now the cause for me is over driving on low speed corners and that will induce the understeer. Sounds like the fix is obvious, don't over drive it! I get that. What I would like though is change the behavior in that scenario. If I do overdrive, I would prefer it to have less understeer and prefer a more neutral feel so I can somewhat control it with throttle rather than just letting off and hoping the car slows down enough for it to get its grip back or to make it not as bad. I already have a nice chunk of negative camber -3.5, would prefer not to add any toe out, the front sway bar is stock so going heavier would just make it worse and disconnecting it probably wouldn't be wise since I'm only running 10k spring rates in the front. At this point, is the only way to achieve that is to reduce the rear grip?

If you havnt dialed in your tyre pressures and temps you need to do this first as this might also be the issue. but i assume youve done this.

If youve got a good temp spread and pressures in the right range, Your camber is already plenty. you say u dont want to add any more toe out. what is your current toe setting and why dont u want to add more? more Toe out will generally make the car turn in quicker. but yes u can have too much. if you have too much youl begin to get oversteer through turns. we run 3mm on mine.

i would actually go stiffer on the front bar. your front springs are really soft. you only induce more understeer with a stiffer/heavier front bar if your spring rates are correct. but you can use a bar to bandaid soft springs its actually a good indicator to tell you if your spring rates are too soft because if u increase front bar and the grip gets better then it shows u need stiffer springs as technically a stiffer front bar should induce understeer on a properly sprung setup.

Youd probably find your best option is to actually chuck in a set of 14 or 16kg front springs. but youd probably want to up the rear spring rate to match. If your not willing to go straight to springs stiffen the front bar up and see if it helps. if it does then go stiffer on the springs.
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Old Aug 3, 2018, 05:33 PM
  #41  
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Interesting, I always thought softer up front means better grip on that end. Wonder if doing the fsb mod where you drill behind the current position area where the links connect to will be a decent way to test that.

Last edited by CaptainSquirts; Aug 3, 2018 at 05:40 PM.
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Old Aug 3, 2018, 06:38 PM
  #42  
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Well if you think about just adding front bar, then yes you are going to typically increase understeer unless its drastically improving a camber issue (though I remain skeptical on that). The important thing to think about is total weight transfer distribution. The car doesn't have two CGs, it has one. How much each end of the car is going to take of that total weight transfer can be shifted by stiffening one end or the other. I prefer more front spring than bar because I want more force to keep the inside front from diving. Especially given the height of the roll center when lowered.

As my thoughts on getting a car to handle well has evolved, I now really feel you do everything you can to make the front tires happiest which means utilizing inside front as much as possible (Front bar does not help this). Then once you get as much as you can because we are ~60% or more front weight, then balance by unsticking the rear as much as your skill or confidence in control can handle. For AX, you really want the back end to move so you can yaw and rotate around cones instead of just using the front to grip and back to follow. On track or hill climbs, that seems to be totally different. Radius of curvature is much less and you want to be able to point the car when you lift a little with rotation but just a little. Mostly you want stability cause confidence is much more important at track speed.
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Old Aug 3, 2018, 11:29 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by CaptainSquirts View Post
Interesting, I always thought softer up front means better grip on that end. Wonder if doing the fsb mod where you drill behind the current position area where the links connect to will be a decent way to test that.
technically it does. if your spring rates are correct and you soften a front bar you will induce more oversteer.

it gets complicated when your not running enough spring. Because the sway bar being stiffer is actually helping to mask this. when u drop sway bar and u get more understeer your know your spring rate is too low. Hence why i said make the bar stiffer and if it improves ur turn in u need to up ur spring rates, then soften the bar back to where it was.

You can buy a multi point bracket like this: https://frsport.com/cusco-560-315-a-...SABEgKnRvD_BwE
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Old Aug 21, 2018, 10:05 AM
  #44  
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So not 100% sure but I'm assuming too much body roll is causing more camber loss which thus I lose grip on the front end? If that is the case then doing the thing with the bracket posted in post above would help with less body roll which would have me not lose as much camber due to roll? Also my front is 10k springs, I do have a spare 11k springs sitting around, and my rear is 12.5k. Would it better to change my front to 11k springs or would it be better to go the fsb bracket route? Only concern is running 11k front and 12.5k rear since seems like rule of thumb is 2k difference between front to rear rates.

So tl;dr options
As car stand currently - 10k springs front, 12.5k rear, whiteline rsb

1. Change fronts to 11k springs so it'll be 11k front and 12.5k rear.
2. Keep layout as is and get the multi point bracket.
3. Change to 11k springs in front and get multi point bracket.
4. Do the FSB drill mod and or dont mix any of the options above with it.

Last edited by CaptainSquirts; Aug 21, 2018 at 11:29 AM.
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Old Aug 21, 2018, 09:49 PM
  #45  
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The split on the spring rate is due to the motion ratio of the shock being mounted in the middle of the lower control arm and the fact that the rear needs a higher frequency in order to settle out of bumps at the same time as the front. You don't necessarily need a 2k split.

I didn't see you mention what kind of racing you're doing as that will have a huge impact on the best way to go about making changes.

If you're doing track days I would start with the brackets and stiffen the swaybar to see how that changes things. If making the front stiffer helps then swap over the front springs and continue to use the brackets to dial in the car.

If you're doing autox then I'd listen to what Dallas has to say and soften the bar as much as possible to keep wheels on the ground during tight transitions and control roll and stiffness with the springs primarily.
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