Sup w/them 2023 Summer Projects?
Jun 3, 2020, 04:20 PM
#1546
It's depends upon surface, like auto-x, but the real difference comes with elevation. Two cases are Road Atlanta and Sebring. RA or Roebling or Barber like tracks I run 600lb front 750 rear. Main reason is there are two key low speed turns that dip into a bowl before pointing straight uphill. You want the car to squat. Dallas's rear voodoo makes that ***** squat and launch. With more aero or non-dot's I'd jump up several hundred but on A's or R's it's about perfect.
Sebring, on the other hand, is dead *** flat and 60% concrete with high speed bumpy turns. Here you want a high rate on 90% of the course because of the G's you're pulling. However on the last turn right before the front straight it's a wild *** ride. In anything in the ranges mentioned earlier it would bounce you right into the wall or you'd have to slow or have to take a way outside line. Aka fail. So here I only go up to 700/850 but even then I liked the softer setup and carried more speed through. NOW especially with Dallas's stuff.
Basically the "short comings" we used to make up with in spring,... aren't ....entirely....necessary when corrected at the arms.
Sebring, on the other hand, is dead *** flat and 60% concrete with high speed bumpy turns. Here you want a high rate on 90% of the course because of the G's you're pulling. However on the last turn right before the front straight it's a wild *** ride. In anything in the ranges mentioned earlier it would bounce you right into the wall or you'd have to slow or have to take a way outside line. Aka fail. So here I only go up to 700/850 but even then I liked the softer setup and carried more speed through. NOW especially with Dallas's stuff.
Basically the "short comings" we used to make up with in spring,... aren't ....entirely....necessary when corrected at the arms.
Jun 3, 2020, 04:51 PM
#1547
The super short answer is that I bought just about everything Dallas makes and that's where he told me to start. I was previously on AST 5100s, 700 lb/in springs F&R, 255 RE71Rs, Whiteline everything, Wavetrac & MaxLock, and the car was so neutral and predictable it was awesome. Switching to Ohlins Flags, 800/1450, SSB shiny bits, and 18x12s wrapped in 315s. Really excited to go big sticky tire but not excited to have to figure it out again.
Jun 3, 2020, 06:48 PM
#1548
Thanks to everyone for sharing setup info.
Okay, this is good to hear. My latest iteration is 730/850 (13K/15K), which is right in line with your setup for flatter tracks. I'll have to try a softer 600/730 setup for comparison at some point.
I still can't wrap my head around 1450 lb/in rears. That's almost double the rear spring rate.
Sebring, on the other hand, is dead *** flat and 60% concrete with high speed bumpy turns. Here you want a high rate on 90% of the course because of the G's you're pulling. However on the last turn right before the front straight it's a wild *** ride. In anything in the ranges mentioned earlier it would bounce you right into the wall or you'd have to slow or have to take a way outside line. Aka fail. So here I only go up to 700/850 but even then I liked the softer setup and carried more speed through. NOW especially with Dallas's stuff.
I still can't wrap my head around 1450 lb/in rears. That's almost double the rear spring rate.
Jun 3, 2020, 06:54 PM
#1549
Speaking of springs:
8" 650lb/in Hypercoil: 4 lbs, 1 oz.
6" 730lb/in Swift spring: 2 lbs, 2 oz.
Not huge, but I'm still surprised at how light these Swift springs are relative to the Hyperco.
Judging by the marks on the shaft of the front Ohlins strut, the max travel I've used recently is about 3.4 inches. Swift rates this 6" spring for 2.8 inches of usable stroke and 3.8 inches of maximum stroke. So it won't coil bind, but it looks like I could go past the recommended stroke of the spring in certain circumstances. A 5" spring is a no-go on the front Ohlins R&T struts.
8" 650lb/in Hypercoil: 4 lbs, 1 oz.
6" 730lb/in Swift spring: 2 lbs, 2 oz.
Not huge, but I'm still surprised at how light these Swift springs are relative to the Hyperco.
Judging by the marks on the shaft of the front Ohlins strut, the max travel I've used recently is about 3.4 inches. Swift rates this 6" spring for 2.8 inches of usable stroke and 3.8 inches of maximum stroke. So it won't coil bind, but it looks like I could go past the recommended stroke of the spring in certain circumstances. A 5" spring is a no-go on the front Ohlins R&T struts.
Jun 3, 2020, 09:17 PM
#1550
EvoM Guru
It's depends upon surface, like auto-x, but the real difference comes with elevation. Two cases are Road Atlanta and Sebring. RA or Roebling or Barber like tracks I run 600lb front 750 rear. Main reason is there are two key low speed turns that dip into a bowl before pointing straight uphill. You want the car to squat. Dallas's rear voodoo makes that ***** squat and launch. With more aero or non-dot's I'd jump up several hundred but on A's or R's it's about perfect.
Sebring, on the other hand, is dead *** flat and 60% concrete with high speed bumpy turns. Here you want a high rate on 90% of the course because of the G's you're pulling. However on the last turn right before the front straight it's a wild *** ride. In anything in the ranges mentioned earlier it would bounce you right into the wall or you'd have to slow or have to take a way outside line. Aka fail. So here I only go up to 700/850 but even then I liked the softer setup and carried more speed through. NOW especially with Dallas's stuff.
Basically the "short comings" we used to make up with in spring,... aren't ....entirely....necessary when corrected at the arms.
Sebring, on the other hand, is dead *** flat and 60% concrete with high speed bumpy turns. Here you want a high rate on 90% of the course because of the G's you're pulling. However on the last turn right before the front straight it's a wild *** ride. In anything in the ranges mentioned earlier it would bounce you right into the wall or you'd have to slow or have to take a way outside line. Aka fail. So here I only go up to 700/850 but even then I liked the softer setup and carried more speed through. NOW especially with Dallas's stuff.
Basically the "short comings" we used to make up with in spring,... aren't ....entirely....necessary when corrected at the arms.
What parts of Dallas' do you have? I definately need to hurry up and order a pair of front uprights. probably should consider some rears too
Jun 4, 2020, 09:10 AM
#1552
800f/1600r is a good setup. Lets you stop compromising the rear alignment to get the car to turn. Put those springs on with -1.5 deg of camber and zero toe and it will be a mess.
edit: definitely an autox setup. I will say that for track work I would run a slightly softer rear spring to be able to run less rear toe-in.
edit: definitely an autox setup. I will say that for track work I would run a slightly softer rear spring to be able to run less rear toe-in.
Last edited by griceiv; Jun 4, 2020 at 09:20 AM.
Jun 4, 2020, 09:40 AM
#1553
Evolved Member
800f/1600r is a good setup. Lets you stop compromising the rear alignment to get the car to turn. Put those springs on with -1.5 deg of camber and zero toe and it will be a mess.
edit: definitely an autox setup. I will say that for track work I would run a slightly softer rear spring to be able to run less rear toe-in.
edit: definitely an autox setup. I will say that for track work I would run a slightly softer rear spring to be able to run less rear toe-in.
Jun 4, 2020, 10:14 AM
#1554
For toe, run as much as you need. If you have too much rotation on exit, you need more. I havent played with it yet, but it might also help stability if things are getting hairy in other places.
Jun 4, 2020, 10:42 AM
#1556
. On my billet parts, I just made them so I could get that much camber. I have a stock lower control arm and OEM camber adjustment. Toe arm is replaced with my uprights and can also adjust bumpsteer to different effects.
Jun 4, 2020, 02:18 PM
#1557
Got it, so uprights then more low. Would like to start playing around with toe again. Years ago used to run lil bit of toe out in the rear to get the backend to dance but then dialed it back to 0 toe once I was able to power out with a more proper rear diff. Im only at like 1.8 in the rear with 0 toe as any more and toe became out of whack.
Jun 4, 2020, 02:31 PM
#1558
The thing that Marshal really got me to believe in is to do the thing that will have the most effect, sort out the ramifications with the minor adjustments. So everytime they added more rear spring and more toe in it got faster. We can logic out why it works, but at the end of the day they did the testing for us and we can replicate the results.
I still run low rear toe-in (like maybe 1/32-1/16" on each side) but if I can get to testing even higher rates I'll probably be upping that to even as much as 1/4" if necessary. Obviously thats full on AutoX spec though. But with my low rear toe, and just setting rear bar to soft I handle our relatively smooth tracks no problem. Now if I had to deal with bumps in the 100+ range, I may change my tune.
I still run low rear toe-in (like maybe 1/32-1/16" on each side) but if I can get to testing even higher rates I'll probably be upping that to even as much as 1/4" if necessary. Obviously thats full on AutoX spec though. But with my low rear toe, and just setting rear bar to soft I handle our relatively smooth tracks no problem. Now if I had to deal with bumps in the 100+ range, I may change my tune.
Jun 4, 2020, 02:37 PM
#1559
Evolved Member
At least another deg, but depends how low the car is. I run -3deg in the rear but I have less camber gain with the uprights (not in the steep ramp of the curve, a good thing).
For toe, run as much as you need. If you have too much rotation on exit, you need more. I havent played with it yet, but it might also help stability if things are getting hairy in other places.
For toe, run as much as you need. If you have too much rotation on exit, you need more. I havent played with it yet, but it might also help stability if things are getting hairy in other places.
