heel2toe

iTrader: (41)

I have high hopes for this thread. Just went through this endeavor on shedding the lbs specifically up front. Cost/lb is how I broke my spreadsheet down and tried to prioritize from there.

The reality is everything is crazy expensive. Motor mounts were actually great bang for the buck. I went to Ti intercooler piping bc I had to change mine and well wanted minimal weight and to be able to crank em down so Ti made sense.

Didn't you tease us and say you had a plan on how to drop 50# up front? Any more details on that?

Dallas J

iTrader: (1)

Only thing special on my list is the new brake setup that drops 20lbs off the front for the AX configuration and adds back in 10lbs for the track config.

Rest of it is just finishing various things like Spal fan, gut/pin hood, engine side firewall mat, airbags, serpentine tensioner, make new motor mounts, and some other things. My list is about 70lbs still to pull from the front and will cost about 2k + time to make some custom things. Then I can lose another 20lbs swaping to the lighter Volk wheels but thats 3k and in the realm of similar to Ti hardware costs. I expect ti-hardware to be in the $150/lb range.

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

I hear ya. Moving the motor could turn into a nightmarish conundrum of notching the subframe, shortening the driveshaft, custom exhaust, just to name a few. I certinaly don't see that being a bolt up and go mod..

heel2toe

iTrader: (41)

I've attacked a few of those already and seeing ~30# plus another 20# for your brake setup there. I wonder how much weight is hiding in the hood? The engine side mat was a letdown, read on here ~10# but it was like only a couple lbs at most. If you havent taken the one out behind the dash there is a solid 10# hiding in there, if not a little more.

Sorry I've already derailed this thread since its about Ti stuff so I'll drop off now.

But to remain on point I think your estimate of around $150/lb is right on par. Take for example the Evospec Performance suspension kit which drops 5# and is $860. But to that end Im not at the point to spend $150/lb unless there is some sort of additional benefit as to me there are better places to spend my money. Don't get me wrong Ti hardware is awesome but I doubt we're at that point already where you can swallow that pill and say it was money well spent..

Dallas J

iTrader: (1)

I don't really get along with the Evospec guy but I tried to get some info on just getting front weight reduction hardware and a list of the heavy hitters to work towards changing out. But they don't care about front weight since their drag racing. So they didn't differentiate front vs rear.

Dallas J

iTrader: (1)

I still have to look into things a bit more but Ive been told theirs room to move the engine some without notching the subframe. I havent double checked that myself though. I mostly care about going down since is the single biggest weight up front so dropping it an inch is a big change relative to front CG.

heel2toe

iTrader: (41)

Oh I hear ya was simply a data point to backup your $150/lb with the assumption when it comes to hardware, a similar machining costs and then its simply the cost of the materials. Doesnt take into account economies of scale but close enough for our 30,000' conversation here.

Fox_IX

What are you guys seeing for labor costs on Ti fabrication? When our shop was doing it we'd charge the same as any other material(SS or Al), the only big difference is that we consumed a ton more gas when welding Ti as we where also backpurging the tubes. That, and the Ti material itself is quite expensive, but that's where most of the cost came from. We really didn't run into any difficulty working with it compared to any other material commonly found in automotive fabrication, however I'm seeing some pretty high prices for some of these parts which seem out of reason. Curious what your experiences are.

kikiturbo

You have about 10 to 15 mm going down before you hit the steering rack with the transfer box. At that point you will start hitting the subframe too.
I have been raising the steering rack on my new subframe so i have checked that clearence.

As for front end weight removal... remove the N/S bar.. relace with a much lighter tube (just for vehicle towing) and delete front engine mount.

Fox_IX

Wrong thread, ;P
I was just reading that one hahaha

Balrok

iTrader: (15)

My goals are to drop more in the range of 300lbs and get the race weight down in the 2800-2900 range, like a 911. I can totally see that as a "max" effort, cage alone weights 250lbs. But with a Ti north south bar, Ti bolts and motor mounts, carbon drive shaft, all that stuff adds up. 50-100lbs a year seems dooable.

Biggiesacks

I think they use titanium to make fuel tanks in aerospace. That would be cool but probably $$$$. There is also that heavy *** bar that runs the width of the car behind the dash.

Construct

iTrader: (4)

Now much would that rollcage weigh if it was made out of Ti?

Ayoustin

iTrader: (2)

Making the dash bar part of the cage is a pretty good way to shave weight 😋

Ignore the messy wires lol



Just to clear things up as I think there may be some misconceptions about Ti as a material. Titanium is lighter than steel, aluminum is lighter than titanium, magnesium is lighter than aluminum.

The reasons Ti is so coveted is that it can be made almost as strong as basic compositions of steel like most grades of mild and chromoly. It cannot be made as strong as maraging or tool steels (an example of a tool steel is ARP L19 or CA625 commonly used for head studs).

The reason Ti is desirable for applications like connecting rods is that it has an endurance limit like steel so it doesn't strecth over time like almost all aluminum does. It's also possible to make Ti rods lighter than aluminum because it doesn't need as large of a cross section to hold power like all the beefy aluminum rods need.

Also people like Ti because it can be heat colored like steel and can be anodized like aluminum so it's very easy to make it look beautiful.

But for our purposes of weight reduction, aluminum is a better bet in most cases. Its raw material cost is cheaper, it's more readily available, it's easier to machine and weld, and is lighter.

Ayoustin

iTrader: (2)

Well you wouldn't be able to weld the cage to the car but also you wouldn't want a Ti cage. Steel has a large zone of elastic and plastic deformation so it can stretch a lot before it breaks. Titanium isn't like that at all, it pretty much takes the load it and can then shatters will little or no bending happening.

Having a cage that won't bend to absorb the energy of a crash and instead just shatters would be bad news bears.