It was a long night.

Drove 3 1/2 hrs to get to EVODYNAMICS from oklahoma.
getting 84mm cover installed for my FP red and getting a tune.
we started around 830pm Kevin knew exactly what to do and was basically doing the turbo cover install blindfolded LOL...
Got the cover installed and we went out for a tune.. Kevin likes to raise boost..
I dont.. anyway, we got it tuned for 34 psi but it pulls harder than my 38psi tune. ECU control boost gets my car pulling all the way to red line..
i got 91oct tune also just incase i have to go cross country.
Kevin really knows what he is doing for sure.. I will post VDR dyno soon.
Josh was also great to talk to and he is also a gym rat like me.
Love the tune for now untill more MODS hehe....
Thanks Kevin and Josh...

 

a wise man once told me, "boost doesn't kill engines, timing does"

-- krisiun

 

I know a formula one engine builder... He shared with me some interesting info about boost. Without going into all details and math, which I cant remember exactly..at 45 lbs of boost even a 100K engine only lasts about 500 miles.
Running that kind of boost, over 30 psi, is just crazy. Never heard of anyone promoting such high amounts and everyone I have ever heard about running high amounts eventually blow the motors, and sooner over later.

Here is some interesting reading
http://www.motorsportsdigest.com/tech/forced2.htm

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/content/compressor-maps

Here is the formula for cylinder pressure. Using this formula... raising boost even on a built motor can spell DOOM

P1 x V1 = P2 x V2, where P1 is the intake manifold pressure, P2 is static combustion chamber pressure.

 

i am guessing you dont read any threads that buschurracing have posted in last 2 yrs. most of their cars that they build are running 30lbs "low boost".

 

Congrats on your tune. Kevin is a great tuner.

 

I did take the time to read thru the "highboostfourms" Lots of interesting data. CRBD racing recommends 28 PSI on stock motor. Buschur recommends 27 PSI. These of course are on stock motors. I have no doubt that if you build an amazing motor with beefy internals..you can run more boost. Most people dont run built motors within the Ntec club nor within the EVO community.

I have dealt with COBB and AMS on the phone and in person and both of them say 27 PSI on stock internals too. But in fariness Im gonna call Buscher racing on Monday, assuming they are open, and ask them the MAX boost pressure on a stock internals motor and also the MAX boost pressure on a built motor.

Keep in mind these are to be daily drivers. If you have tons of money and can afford to rebuild your motor every so often and high HP is all you care about and money is no object then sure.... run 50 lbs of boost...or whatever you can.

 

hmmm. your first post says all built motors running a **** tons of boost are going to blow up. now your saying if you have a built motor you can run alot of boost. you dont not make sense.

 

the cylinder pressure depends far more on ignition timing then boost pressure. also your equation doesn't account for temperature increase or vapor pressure from the fuel.

also running 30+psi doesn't spell doom. i ran 30psi on my stock motor for 50,000 miles. i tracked it, raced, etc etc. i finally took the methanol injection off and then swapped back to a stock 9 turbo and am running 29psi. still stock motor, i even have the stock headstuds still

and you must have misunderstood your buddy, because there are engines that run 45+psi and last for hundreds of thousands of miles. think semi tractor

oh and the OP has a buschur 2.0L built motor

 

L2 read.... never said that. Never said built motors are guaranteed to blow up. I just know of three people within Ntec that were over 30 PSI and blew up motors. I knew several people with the Supra club that blew up motors with too much boost. Knew people within the RX7 club that blew up motors, once again... too much boost.

I also said OVER 30 psi.

 

KevinD Quote "and you must have misunderstood your buddy, because there are engines that run 45+psi and last for hundreds of thousands of miles. think semi tractor "


Yes diesels are very very different. Since this is the EVO fourms I figured we were staying within the discussion of gas or e85 cars. and hence my statements.

Porsche has been placing turbos on car longer and more consistantly that any other car manufacture. Even thier race cars run about 26 lbs of boost. Maybe thats a function or rather limit of flat motors? I guess what I should have said.. was.... It seems that raising boost is fast, cheap and seems like the easy way to get more power but tends to wear parts much faster.

 

I am going to laugh when Kevin schools you.

 

Never been too proud to be schooled. I would love to learn something NEW.

So please do explain. But so far the teachers have been Buschur, Cobb, AMS, CBRD Speed Factory and too many to list from my Supra days. all seem to say the same things, regarding boost.

Well in all fairness I cant count Buschur cause I havent talked to them on the phone yet

 

Subarus tend to boost less too. It is partially due to the boxer nature. Porsche also runs a higher compression motor than most so they run less boost safely.

 

ive ran like 32psi of boost on a stock motor for like 40,000 miles....the only thing that happened is when i got down to like 20 degrees outside my boost spiked in 5th to 38psi thus causing my headgasket to warp.

now im running 30psi STILL with E85 and my car has 77000 miles and nothing wrong.

 

since you said your F1 engine builder said even 100k dollar engines don't last 500 miles on high boost, i just assumed you were talking about race car engines, old school F1 or whatever. since F1 engines barely last 500 miles anyway, the old school boosted ones aren't really much different then the current NA ones. thus i threw out the semi tractor and diesel example.


the amount of boost a porsche runs depends on many things, not just the strength of the motor. they can obviously hold a lot more the 26psi of boost. check out some of the turbo kits you can get for them, kicking out 700+whp on daily drivers. the race cars are limited by fuel, restrictors, and many other reasons. the turbo they run is going to be efficient in a certain range, and being a race engine, they are going to run it in that range. endurance racing cars are also detuned to last the entire race, as added boost will put added strain on the brakes, cooling, tires etc...

for us evo guys, sure, running 27psi on a stock turbo, stock engine and pump gas is asking for a melted piston or thrown rod. but put a 35r on there, and it runs far more efficient at higher boost, so running 28-30psi on pump gas is faster then running 23psi. alternatively, you can run e85, have higher octane and better latent heat of vaporization, and have no problem running 27psi on stock turbo. throw in a buschur 2.0L with 10:1 CR pistons, and you effectively reduce the amount of boost you can run when compared to a 8.6:1CR.

so as you can see, the amount of boost you can run depends on far more then just manifold pressure. it depends on a bunch of things including air intake temperatures, octane, CR, and of course strength of engine components (head studs, gasket, cylinder wall thickness and strength, rod strength, etc...)