local Pittsburgh Meet
Is a bigger turbo going to help in a hill climb? I'm sure a 20G or something might be good, but what about a 50 trim? Or a 30R? In hill climbs you want good mid range in addition to top end, right? You aren't really up high revving for very long, right? I'm just trying to understand the whole hill climb thing.
That show there looked pretty good. Man I hate it in Chambersburg, I want to move back to Pittsburgh!!!
Well here is the thing. the variation in courses is problem. Courses like Giants and Jefferson you could use something like a 30 or 35r. there are plenty of straights were you need the power up top. Now on some of the other hill. There are alot of lower speed turns to deal with. I'm talking 2nd gear turns. So I really need to have a turbo that dosn't take very long to spool. Really to do it right i would need two turbo's for different hills. But what would be a good comprimise? Evo Green? that or a TME turbo. If your wondering what hillclimbs are like you should come out to Polish mtn and watch and or volenteer. They really are like a short tarmac rally stage. Lots of freaking steep turns. I think the end at Giants is like 22 degree incline. Which is dam steep.
Well here is the thing. the variation in courses is problem. Courses like Giants and Jefferson you could use something like a 30 or 35r. there are plenty of straights were you need the power up top. Now on some of the other hill. There are alot of lower speed turns to deal with. I'm talking 2nd gear turns. So I really need to have a turbo that dosn't take very long to spool. Really to do it right i would need two turbo's for different hills. But what would be a good comprimise? Evo Green? that or a TME turbo. If your wondering what hillclimbs are like you should come out to Polish mtn and watch and or volenteer. They really are like a short tarmac rally stage. Lots of freaking steep turns. I think the end at Giants is like 22 degree incline. Which is dam steep.
Well here is the thing. the variation in courses is problem. Courses like Giants and Jefferson you could use something like a 30 or 35r. there are plenty of straights were you need the power up top. Now on some of the other hill. There are alot of lower speed turns to deal with. I'm talking 2nd gear turns. So I really need to have a turbo that dosn't take very long to spool. Really to do it right i would need two turbo's for different hills. But what would be a good comprimise? Evo Green? that or a TME turbo. If your wondering what hillclimbs are like you should come out to Polish mtn and watch and or volenteer. They really are like a short tarmac rally stage. Lots of freaking steep turns. I think the end at Giants is like 22 degree incline. Which is dam steep.
to geoff (owner of full-race) and he believes it will spool damn near the stocker
but make alot more power. This is however not cheap and will be alot more
involved then just a turbo upgraded. It is a option! Full-race is building 3 cars
with this kit with turbo's ranging from from 3071 for road course to 4094 for
drag. Should be interesting.
http://www.full-race.com/catalog/pro...8a9ccdef3380f1
added a link for the kit....it's sexy!
Last edited by Mike01gsr; Jul 12, 2007 at 09:55 AM.
LOL. Yup, your right i think. Altho i'm sure as heck going to blow the thing before i do that. I am going to own this car for a long time so i'll have a chance eventually to build the "perfect setup".
So i'll try and make the meet on sat. Im not sure yet but we'll see.
So i'll try and make the meet on sat. Im not sure yet but we'll see.
I threw down 270 whp and 265 lb-ft on CBRD's mustang dyno. Seems low, but I guess you figure at least 10% loss vs a dynojet. (300 on a dynojet) Chad said with my mods, that's right where I should be. And I might add, that I'm now boosting a safer 21 psi and running a much safer knock free map than big Al's 23+psi "toon." So I guess I'm happy with the number. I'm happy with the car, most importantly, and the service these guys provided. I've never been to a shop that would discount your final price for taking too long... Nothing but class. And my MBC decided to take a **** on the dyno (of all times to break). No problem, Chad fixed it with a new one! Great review, thanks again Chad and Mark!
My mods were: HKS catback, HKS downpipe, Works Hi Flow cat (the power killer!!!), GSC S1 cams, HKS intake, Hallman MBC, and a Winebro Fuel pump. Stock everything else.
The end result looks like I may have to stop being a tree hugger and ****can the cat!
I never really truly realized how you guys with the IX's make sick power with so little. It's like having aftermarket cams, stock.
CBRD is having some dyno days for only like $55 dollars for 4 pulls. Boost and Wideband. That's a steal! Or also a Jester tuning day for those interested in his tune. I don't really think Jester would do much more than Chad would though...
My mods were: HKS catback, HKS downpipe, Works Hi Flow cat (the power killer!!!), GSC S1 cams, HKS intake, Hallman MBC, and a Winebro Fuel pump. Stock everything else.
The end result looks like I may have to stop being a tree hugger and ****can the cat!
I never really truly realized how you guys with the IX's make sick power with so little. It's like having aftermarket cams, stock.
CBRD is having some dyno days for only like $55 dollars for 4 pulls. Boost and Wideband. That's a steal! Or also a Jester tuning day for those interested in his tune. I don't really think Jester would do much more than Chad would though...
Those look like fine numbers to me Brian! Im glad to year you like the tune. And how do the cams feel? So i was just wondering why you say you were at a 24 psi tune? you have a boost controller right. Did he tell you to run that? Just curious because when i got my tune it was actually reading about 24-25 on the dyno sheet with pump gas. And there was no knock. With just alittle race gas we were at 27 running fine. i actually turned it back down to read 21 on my boost gauge. Im just wondering if maybe the gauge isn't super accurate.
to hell with the numbers brian they really dont mean much its all how the car feels and responds. if it feels faster and you like it who cares you know its makin more power and safer at this point. Plus the only numbers that matter are what you put down at a track . real world performance no matter what the venue is 1/4 mile , auto x , or road course. Its always vital to have before and after to review progress
True Dan, true...
Read this if you have a Dynoflash. I'm not in any way knocking (no pun intended) Al's tune or ability. Thousands of guys are running his tunes with zero problems. I had to get retuned, so I just wanted to fix some of what I thought Al's flaws were. Many other tuners will agree with some.
Jeremy, disregarding supporting mods and the increased air flow (more boost capability), it seems that a lot of tuners vary the boost they run in clients cars. What they may lose or gain in the boost variable, they can make up for or sacrifice in timing or A/F variables. Some tuners prefer lower boost with leaner A/F's and/or more advanced timing. Other tuners like super high boost with richer A/F's and less timing advance. This is only applicable to a certain extent, obviously. You can't run 15 lbs of boost and throw 32 degrees of timing and expect the same result as 20 lbs of boost with 6 degrees advanced timing. As long as you personally are not knocking, I'm sure it's all good. I'm not sure which way is "better," but as long as it's safe, making power, and not knocking, I'm sure it's fine.
My personal ignition timing and fuel maps were a "little funny" from big Al. Just looking at the cells, there were places that just didn't make any sense to use... Chad explained it to me. AF's went from like 14 at 2,000 rpms, then slowly but surely they richen up or lean out, whatever (the way they're supposed to). The problem was this... In a series of cells ranging from 14 before boost kicks in, 11 or so whenever boost kicks in, then richening up at redline to like 10 or whatever. Al had a random 15 (or some off the wall number) in the middle of the cells that made absolutely no sense. It was almost an "accident." And I was getting an unreasonable amount of knock for a "custom tuned" car (some attributed to the 94 - 93 octane switch I had to do.) I actually got rid of most knock with some 104 / 93 mixture! At any rate, Al's a competant tuner, don't think that he's not. I'm sure your car is great if you're winning 1st / 2nd place trophies! You may want to log your car just for the hell of it and see what's up. If you don't like anything, CBRD (Chad) said that he'll do the email flash thing. He's doing it for Justin.
Another horrible thing about Al's tune is this. The stock ECU factory flash has both "high octane" and "low octane" fuel and ignition maps. The low is for the dumba$$ that puts 87 in the tank. Well, big ol' Al doesn't think it's neccessary for a low octane map. So he just copies the High octane map for the low octane map. Not very safe. No margin for error. If you enctounter a severe bad tank of gas or anything like that, the stock ECU switches to the low octane map, only to find that the maps are the same! The ECU will still pull timing to an extent, but words from many different tuners are that it will only compensate for moderate detonation or pre ignition. You can't pull timing to control 28 counts of knock!!! That's where the low octane map comes into play. It will switch to a less agressive map. Usually, the low octane map is just the same map with either fuel added or timing retarded a little. Just as a safegaurd. I'm more happy to know that my car has a "back-up plan."
Anyhow, to answer the question, boost is just another variable. With more boost, you don't run as aggressive timing and ignition maps and vice versa. I guess a proper balance of both is optimal. This is only to a certain extent though.
Sorry, I'm bored... I didn't mean to write my own novel! LOL
Read this if you have a Dynoflash. I'm not in any way knocking (no pun intended) Al's tune or ability. Thousands of guys are running his tunes with zero problems. I had to get retuned, so I just wanted to fix some of what I thought Al's flaws were. Many other tuners will agree with some.
Jeremy, disregarding supporting mods and the increased air flow (more boost capability), it seems that a lot of tuners vary the boost they run in clients cars. What they may lose or gain in the boost variable, they can make up for or sacrifice in timing or A/F variables. Some tuners prefer lower boost with leaner A/F's and/or more advanced timing. Other tuners like super high boost with richer A/F's and less timing advance. This is only applicable to a certain extent, obviously. You can't run 15 lbs of boost and throw 32 degrees of timing and expect the same result as 20 lbs of boost with 6 degrees advanced timing. As long as you personally are not knocking, I'm sure it's all good. I'm not sure which way is "better," but as long as it's safe, making power, and not knocking, I'm sure it's fine.
My personal ignition timing and fuel maps were a "little funny" from big Al. Just looking at the cells, there were places that just didn't make any sense to use... Chad explained it to me. AF's went from like 14 at 2,000 rpms, then slowly but surely they richen up or lean out, whatever (the way they're supposed to). The problem was this... In a series of cells ranging from 14 before boost kicks in, 11 or so whenever boost kicks in, then richening up at redline to like 10 or whatever. Al had a random 15 (or some off the wall number) in the middle of the cells that made absolutely no sense. It was almost an "accident." And I was getting an unreasonable amount of knock for a "custom tuned" car (some attributed to the 94 - 93 octane switch I had to do.) I actually got rid of most knock with some 104 / 93 mixture! At any rate, Al's a competant tuner, don't think that he's not. I'm sure your car is great if you're winning 1st / 2nd place trophies! You may want to log your car just for the hell of it and see what's up. If you don't like anything, CBRD (Chad) said that he'll do the email flash thing. He's doing it for Justin.
Another horrible thing about Al's tune is this. The stock ECU factory flash has both "high octane" and "low octane" fuel and ignition maps. The low is for the dumba$$ that puts 87 in the tank. Well, big ol' Al doesn't think it's neccessary for a low octane map. So he just copies the High octane map for the low octane map. Not very safe. No margin for error. If you enctounter a severe bad tank of gas or anything like that, the stock ECU switches to the low octane map, only to find that the maps are the same! The ECU will still pull timing to an extent, but words from many different tuners are that it will only compensate for moderate detonation or pre ignition. You can't pull timing to control 28 counts of knock!!! That's where the low octane map comes into play. It will switch to a less agressive map. Usually, the low octane map is just the same map with either fuel added or timing retarded a little. Just as a safegaurd. I'm more happy to know that my car has a "back-up plan."
Anyhow, to answer the question, boost is just another variable. With more boost, you don't run as aggressive timing and ignition maps and vice versa. I guess a proper balance of both is optimal. This is only to a certain extent though.
Sorry, I'm bored... I didn't mean to write my own novel! LOL