Ok, I took my car to a shop that will not be named at this time to have the downpipe, and exhaust replaced. The DP is an AMS and the exhaust is an Agency Power. During the removal of the O2 from the Turbo, they snapped a bolt. In order for them to get the bolt out, they need to drill/tap whatever to get it out and replace.

Here comes the opinions, I was told that I am expected to pay for the labor to remove said broken bolt, which at this point could be upwards of four hours total. Am I wrong for thinking that they need to do this for free as they were the ones who broke the bolt, or should I pay them for taking out something they broke? Thanks in advance for your opinions.

Ricky

 

I'm not sure what they are liable for but either way the broken bolt has to come out and you don't want to deal with that yourself. Those heat treated bolts are a major PITA!!! I snapped both studs off in my turbo. It took my buddy who works at a machine shop 4hrs to drill and tap.

 

See if they will cut you a break on the labor charges.

Here is a run down of the relevant state law.
http://dor.wa.gov/Docs/Pubs/SpecialN...sn_96_auto.pdf

 

breaking bolts is part of working on cars. the bolt was seized due to corrosion and heat. it is not their fault, it would have broken if superman was removing it. let them fix it and move on.

**** like that happens.

b

 

If they broke it, then they need to fix it. That is why you went to the shop to get it done
right the first time.

If they charged you for what they did that's BS! Imo.

 

This seems to be a common occurrence with the bolts connecting the o2 housing and the turbo (at least from my reading on here). I can't comment specifically on an Evo but my parents had something similar happen with their Expedition. It's a known issue that plugs like to snap off during their removal from Expys (I can't remember if it was specific to their engines or a year range). They were warned before the tune-up started that it was a possibility that it could happen and if it did they were stuck with the labor bill.

I would think that if this is a common occurrence during this procedure that it would be a good idea for the shop to warn you that it may or may not happen and that you'd be on the hook for additional labor charges if it did. Because I've read about it happening on here, I plan on blasting the hell out of the bolts the night before I take it in to hopefully avoid that situation. Since I know it happens though, I plan on having some extra cash along with me in case it does.

If I didn't know what I know, I'd probably think it was a little bit of negligence on their part and ask for them to at least give me a break on their rate for the time they were working on that specific task. If they then informed me that this was a common thing to happen while replacing the o2 housing, I'd still ask for a break and point out that the high probability of snapping bolts is something you inform people of beforehand. If they still didn't cut me a break, I wouldn't get angry (although I'd be frustrated) but I might consider a different shop the next time around.

 

I'm letting them fix it for sure, but I just don't feel I should have to pay them for something that they broke. As stated above, I took it to them in confidence that the job would get done right, and if something happened, they would be responsible for it, regardless how small or big. If i was doing it myself, I would be responsible for getting it out and all costs occurred doing so, as such, I believe they should as well, but wanted to see what other opinions were.

 

And I just want to be clear, while I havent seen the final bill, it was alluded to that I would incurr the cost of labor required to get out the snapped bolt, only after it was snapped. I dont know yet if they are going to hold to that or not, but I would hope they would do the right thing and not charge for that portion. I work on computers and manage people, and if I was fixing a computer and broke it, I guarentee you that the customer would not be ok with paying to fix something I broke.

 

Honestly you should pay for it, but they should have warned you that it was a potential issue. As someone stated, it most likely would have broken no matter who did it. Why should they be responsible for replacing something that broke due to it becoming brittle from your driving of the car? If that was the case, everyone should be beating the **** out of their cars and heat cycling the **** out of them before any and all exhaust/turbo work in the hopes that the bolts and studs would snap, just so they could get new ones.

 

Thank you for your opinion, allow me to answer your question. As car lovers, odds are we have all worked on a car and turned a wrench or two. When we find one that isn't coming loose, we know that the more we torque on it, the closer we get to either breaking it loose or sheering it off. At that moment, a call should be made to the customer, and the choice left to them, do you want me to proceed or do you want me to stop and look at other options as far as hardware goes. Again, I think, in my opinion, that they should absolutely be responsible for sheering off a bolt. Its part of owning a shop, things happen like that, you don't make a customer pay for something that you broke in any industry, automotive and service should not be different, in my opinion that is.

I really do appreciate the opinions and different view points. My hope is that a compromise can be found that is mutually beneficial to both parties.

 

+1, well said!

 

I can see both sides of this situation...Usually whenever I'm working on a customers exhaust system no matter how old the car is I make sure they are awear that with any bolt that has been heat cycled from exhaust gases there is always a chance of one breaking. From there we make the determination on who will pay or make a "% of pay" deal if something like that occurs.

On the other side of things...Just a few weeks ago I had a 2010 Duramax come in to my work with an open recall on the exhaust temp sensors before and after the catt needing to be replaced with an updated part number due to a common issue where the sensors circuit board actually welds itself into the exhaust causing an issue with the Diesel Particulate System.

Heres the quote for the cause straight from the actual GM Bulletin...

"General Motors has decided to conduct a Voluntary Emission Recall involving certain 2010 model year Chevrolet Express, Silverado HD; and GMC Savana, Sierra HD vehicles equipped with a 6.6L V8 Duramax diesel engine (LMM); and 2007-2009 model year Chevrolet Express, Kodiak, Silverado HD; and GMC Savana, Sierra HD, and TopKick vehicles equipped with a 6.6L V8 Duramax diesel engine (LMM) that may have been serviced with a suspect Exhaust Gas Temperature (EGT) sensor. On these vehicles, the circuit board welds on the EGT sensors in the exhaust system may not be to GM specification. If a weld fails, the Service Engine Soon light will illuminate in the instrument panel, the exhaust gas may not be filtered properly, and the engine power may be reduced."

Needless to say you already know what happened when I went to remove them...They broke inside the exhaust and I had to remove the exhaust center section to remove them...Doing this took me and extra 2 hours but of course good ole Generous Motors didn't want to pay me for it so I had to jump through hoops making seperate time punches for every little think that I did and write a huge explanation as to why they broke and all the steps I had to take to fix the issue and even after doing all that they still didnt want to pay me for it even though the bulletin says that the reason for replacing them is because they become welded to the exhaust haha what a joke! BTW the original job of replacing the sensors only pays .4hr btw!

 

I would charge you for it as it is the nature of how turbocharged cars are. They run at ridiculous temperatures and bolts gall in housings. This goes back to 1990 DSMs and far longer if you care to look into it.

However, I would have done my best to let you know prior and given you the final decision as to what happened. It is not negligence that it broke only that they failed to notify you that it was going to be an issue.

 

Like it has been said prior, it's unfortunate that it broke but suck it up and pay for it. It's really not the mechanics fault that the bolt was seized.

If they had their lift fail with your car on it are you responisible for the lift because your car was occupying the lift when it failed? Just saying.

 

The shop should have factored this into their initial quote. It's always good business practice to quote on the high side for a job. If the final charge comes in lower then the customer is happy, if the original quote holds true then nobody is surprised.