Evo IX 2.3 Liter Build FP Black Build
Apr 10, 2017, 05:12 AM
#301
Evolving Member
I'm glad you have hopefully resolved the situation concerning the oil issue.
When you have been pulling out the valve stem seals, have you noticed that some were easier to pull down then others?
When you have been pulling out the valve stem seals, have you noticed that some were easier to pull down then others?
Apr 10, 2017, 10:37 AM
#302
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
Did the old valve seals look like they were messed up, Rany?
Apr 10, 2017, 01:44 PM
#303
The first valve stem seal that I tried to pull out was very hard because I didn't have a feel for it yet, but once i realized that you have to twist them in place a few times before yanking them out, they all felt the same. I used the largest set of needle nose pliers I could fit without scuffing the valve stem up. I also noticed that sometimes they leave behind a layer of viton that must be removed from the sharp groove of the valve guide before installing the new set.
Hey Sean, they didn't look bad at all. There was no obvious damage to them whatsoever. What I did notice was that the top inner most groove looked slightly flattened, but honestly I was tired and high on oil fumes so it could have been my imagination haha.
My best theory is that the Supertech retainers and side to side harmonics of the dual valve springs made contact with and misshaped the valve stem seals over time. They might have slowly unseated them as well. My motor didn't start burning oil until about 2000 miles lol. Kinda a$$backwards to what motors normally do.
By the way, Aarons base map freakin rocks now so my car was throwing a fit before. Now I know what you meant by it being better than other peoples completed tunes.
I just hope that my oil consumption is fixed. If not, I don't know what to do next.
-pal215
Last edited by Pal215; Apr 10, 2017 at 08:14 PM.
Apr 11, 2017, 09:32 AM
#304
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
Thanks Kevin, I hope it fixed it too. So far so good.
The first valve stem seal that I tried to pull out was very hard because I didn't have a feel for it yet, but once i realized that you have to twist them in place a few times before yanking them out, they all felt the same. I used the largest set of needle nose pliers I could fit without scuffing the valve stem up. I also noticed that sometimes they leave behind a layer of viton that must be removed from the sharp groove of the valve guide before installing the new set.
Hey Sean, they didn't look bad at all. There was no obvious damage to them whatsoever. What I did notice was that the top inner most groove looked slightly flattened, but honestly I was tired and high on oil fumes so it could have been my imagination haha.
My best theory is that the Supertech retainers and side to side harmonics of the dual valve springs made contact with and misshaped the valve stem seals over time. They might have slowly unseated them as well. My motor didn't start burning oil until about 2000 miles lol. Kinda a$$backwards to what motors normally do.
By the way, Aarons base map freakin rocks now so my car was throwing a fit before. Now I know what you meant by it being better than other peoples completed tunes.
I just hope that my oil consumption is fixed. If not, I don't know what to do next.
-pal215
The first valve stem seal that I tried to pull out was very hard because I didn't have a feel for it yet, but once i realized that you have to twist them in place a few times before yanking them out, they all felt the same. I used the largest set of needle nose pliers I could fit without scuffing the valve stem up. I also noticed that sometimes they leave behind a layer of viton that must be removed from the sharp groove of the valve guide before installing the new set.
Hey Sean, they didn't look bad at all. There was no obvious damage to them whatsoever. What I did notice was that the top inner most groove looked slightly flattened, but honestly I was tired and high on oil fumes so it could have been my imagination haha.
My best theory is that the Supertech retainers and side to side harmonics of the dual valve springs made contact with and misshaped the valve stem seals over time. They might have slowly unseated them as well. My motor didn't start burning oil until about 2000 miles lol. Kinda a$$backwards to what motors normally do.
By the way, Aarons base map freakin rocks now so my car was throwing a fit before. Now I know what you meant by it being better than other peoples completed tunes.
I just hope that my oil consumption is fixed. If not, I don't know what to do next.
-pal215
Any malformation to the valve stem seal can potential cause leakage, so hopefully that is the cause. I would still try to find a known good compression tester. 120psi is kind of low.
Glad you're finally getting to experience the wizardry that is Aaron's tuning abilities. I almost cried tears of joy when my car ran better on his base map after close to a year of "tooning" shenanigans...
Apr 11, 2017, 09:49 AM
#305
Any malformation to the valve stem seal can potential cause leakage, so hopefully that is the cause. I would still try to find a known good compression tester. 120psi is kind of low.
Glad you're finally getting to experience the wizardry that is Aaron's tuning abilities. I almost cried tears of joy when my car ran better on his base map after close to a year of "tooning" shenanigans...
Glad you're finally getting to experience the wizardry that is Aaron's tuning abilities. I almost cried tears of joy when my car ran better on his base map after close to a year of "tooning" shenanigans...
And thanks man, it really is world class tuning. I look forward to the E85 map tuning.
-pal215
Apr 11, 2017, 09:56 AM
#306
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
How many times did you crank it over while testing? Some people make the mistake of stopping after 1-2 cycles of the engine. You're supposed to crank it until the gauge stops going up. Usually take 4-6 cycles.
Apr 11, 2017, 10:15 AM
#308
Gentlemen,
It is with a mournful heart that I must share my engine is still burning oil. After all the work and preparations to prevent a mishap like this, it still happened. Cylinders 3 and 4 are still wet and I'm leaning towards it being an issue with the oil rings. Even then so, I don't understand how the compression rings wouldn't just scrape the oil off the walls since they are after the oil rings. What are the odds that it is a head gasket failure if my coolant is clean? No blue smoke at startup, but there is blue smoke in boost, especially during the first 2 pulls of the day.
I can't blame the engine builder yet without actually knowing what's going on.
So in summary, I'm tired guys. I don't know what to do next other than change the head gasket using new head studs and hope for the best. What would you guys do next?
-pal215
It is with a mournful heart that I must share my engine is still burning oil. After all the work and preparations to prevent a mishap like this, it still happened. Cylinders 3 and 4 are still wet and I'm leaning towards it being an issue with the oil rings. Even then so, I don't understand how the compression rings wouldn't just scrape the oil off the walls since they are after the oil rings. What are the odds that it is a head gasket failure if my coolant is clean? No blue smoke at startup, but there is blue smoke in boost, especially during the first 2 pulls of the day.
I can't blame the engine builder yet without actually knowing what's going on.
So in summary, I'm tired guys. I don't know what to do next other than change the head gasket using new head studs and hope for the best. What would you guys do next?
-pal215
Last edited by Pal215; Apr 11, 2017 at 05:54 PM. Reason: fixed my rambling
Apr 11, 2017, 10:19 AM
#309
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
It's not a head gasket.
And your lean condition around 3k didn't hurt anything. When it goes as lean as it was, there isn't even any combustion to cause damage. I drove my car with the same issue for almost a year, didn't hurt a thing. If the lean condition hurt things, you would see evidence of detonation erosion on the crowns of the pistons.
Do a leak down and comp test. And call MAP. If they don't want to do anything for you. I suggest pulling the motor and taking it to someone reputable (English Racing
). It will likely need to be honed and and have new rings installed. As long as PTW wasn't set too large by MAP.
Find your blue print sheet and post it. I'm curious to see it.
And your lean condition around 3k didn't hurt anything. When it goes as lean as it was, there isn't even any combustion to cause damage. I drove my car with the same issue for almost a year, didn't hurt a thing. If the lean condition hurt things, you would see evidence of detonation erosion on the crowns of the pistons.
Do a leak down and comp test. And call MAP. If they don't want to do anything for you. I suggest pulling the motor and taking it to someone reputable (English Racing
). It will likely need to be honed and and have new rings installed. As long as PTW wasn't set too large by MAP.Find your blue print sheet and post it. I'm curious to see it.
Apr 11, 2017, 10:57 AM
#310
It's not a head gasket.
And your lean condition around 3k didn't hurt anything. When it goes as lean as it was, there isn't even any combustion to cause damage. I drove my car with the same issue for almost a year, didn't hurt a thing. If the lean condition hurt things, you would see evidence of detonation erosion on the crowns of the pistons.
Do a leak down and comp test. And call MAP. If they don't want to do anything for you. I suggest pulling the motor and taking it to someone reputable (English Racing ). It will likely need to be honed and and have new rings installed. As long as PTW wasn't set too large by MAP.
Find your blue print sheet and post it. I'm curious to see it.
And your lean condition around 3k didn't hurt anything. When it goes as lean as it was, there isn't even any combustion to cause damage. I drove my car with the same issue for almost a year, didn't hurt a thing. If the lean condition hurt things, you would see evidence of detonation erosion on the crowns of the pistons.
Do a leak down and comp test. And call MAP. If they don't want to do anything for you. I suggest pulling the motor and taking it to someone reputable (English Racing
). It will likely need to be honed and and have new rings installed. As long as PTW wasn't set too large by MAP.Find your blue print sheet and post it. I'm curious to see it.
Sounds good Sean, I'll look for it and post it today. I know I have it around here in a file somewhere.
-pal215
Apr 11, 2017, 11:42 AM
#312
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
It is interesting to me that every single bore and piston is identical to the other bores and pistons. Same with the crank journals, down to ten thousandths. That simply doesn't happen. Sorry, that blue print sheet is pencil whipped and essentially useless 
Last edited by letsgetthisdone; Apr 11, 2017 at 11:48 AM.
Apr 11, 2017, 12:04 PM
#314
I don't know what to say other than I am very disappointed that MAP did not blueprint my block properly.
In this uncertain world of engine building we are trying to trust somebody here.-pal215
Last edited by Pal215; Apr 27, 2017 at 10:35 AM.