Speed Density 2.0 (3D VE Tables, Baro)

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Apr 28, 2013 | 07:31 AM

#691

Dynotech Tuning

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From: Seekonk, MA

EGR flow changes with Speed Density

Edit: I felt it was better to have this topic as a new thread

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...l#post10781895

Last edited by Dynotech Tuning; Apr 28, 2013 at 07:40 AM.

May 18, 2013 | 10:22 AM

#692

EvocentriK

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynotech Tuning

I have found the main benefit to be the elimination of MAF turbulence. Mostly due to very poor MAF air intake designs out there. It doesn't take much for a MAF setup to feel notchy and jerky under certain cruising conditions, especially when the BOV recirculates. With a really good MAF intake, switching to SD wouldn't 'feel' much different but does remove the restriction on high flowing turbo setups like 211ratsbud mentioned.

-Jamie

Yeah some intakes have a bad rep for causing drivability issues. I run the ralliart hard intake pipe, and have no issues whatsoever with it.

I did noticed the SD was smoother when deliberately causing large throttle deltas (lifting off then flooring it intentionally), but I never drive like this so for me it didn't manifest into a smoother driving experience. Would be good to pull the MAF leaving it plugged in to measure IAT but just attach the filter direct to the intake pipe and see if there were any gains. I don't think I am making enough power to notice any change from this though.

May 26, 2013 | 03:23 PM

#693

domyz

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynotech Tuning

So I have come to the conclusion that the fuel tables I listed in my 'startup fuel and ISCV tables' thread might not not work in the 3D SD roms. I am heading to Portland,Oregon for the week so I won't be able to test it. If someone wants to log the tables on a MAF tune, then on a 3D SD tune, the first thing they will notice is the IPW while cranking table doesn't seem to do a damn thing in the 3D rom. I get the same IPW while cranking during all temps when logging 2-byte IPW.

-Jamie

I saw this post right after I spend some time trying to remove fuel from a rich cranking on my car on 3D SD... and can't seem to correct it with your found startup fuel maps. I also have a lean warmup issue.

Rescaling MAF lowest hz value isn't coolant temp dependant so for cranking it's not the best fix... all that may be a problem for me (Car sees from 0F to 100F from winter to summer)

For this reason I will work on 2d SD unless someone has a fix for that.

May 26, 2013 | 04:49 PM

#694

Dynotech Tuning

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From: Seekonk, MA

I have found inaccurate latency values to also multiply this problem, combined with inaccurate VE settings. If the latency values are too high, it will inject more fuel than anticipated during cranking. Once the rpm exceeds 438rpm, that table is no longer in use and its going off of the open loop fuel table I believe. At that point, the issue becomes the VE tables inaccuracy. The higher the VE table value in the 0-750rpm/80-100kpa range, the higher it will 'simulate' the MAF Hz.

In theory, if you zero'd out the 'IPW while cranking' table, one would assume the engine should never start since the only injector pulse would be the latency table. If the engine does start, the latency value at the cranking battery voltage (9-12 volts) is most likely too high.

-Jamie

May 26, 2013 | 04:52 PM

#695

211Ratsbud

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These tables available for 8858?

May 26, 2013 | 05:04 PM

#696

domyz

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynotech Tuning

It's odd how 2D SD has no issue and 3D has these issues. It's like the added code would interfere in some routines which aren't supposed to be related.

May 26, 2013 | 05:24 PM

#697

211Ratsbud

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That's why I'd like to try on a 8858, might be different there.

Also the patch was ported and the 3d table was changed so there might be some inequality there

May 26, 2013 | 06:10 PM

#698

Dynotech Tuning

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From: Seekonk, MA

I already asked the person who created the 3D SD patch and how they added the 3D table really doesn't have any difference in the process than the 2D SD patch does.

-Jamie

May 26, 2013 | 06:53 PM

#699

domyz

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynotech Tuning

I already asked the person who created the 3D SD patch and how they added the 3D table really doesn't have any difference in the process than the 2D SD patch does.

-Jamie

So it should work, why doesn't it... it's over my understanding of the ECU routines. I'll let the pros do the work

May 26, 2013 | 11:22 PM

#700

donner

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 211ratsbud

These tables available for 8858?

What tables you need?

May 27, 2013 | 04:35 AM

#701

211Ratsbud

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Hey donner, damn youre sneaky!

theres a couple of Start up ISCV tables that DTT listed for the 8859. this is not something I need for my car, but broadening the XML completeness always is nice I suppose, as well as seeing if the no change behavour was exhibited in the 8858 rom just like the 8859.

here are the 8859 ones:

Code:

<scaling name="ISCV_AX2_8" units="% Demand" toexpr="x*100/255" frexpr="x*255/100" format="%.2f" min="0" max="200" inc="0.5" storagetype="uint8" endian="big"/>
	
<scaling name="PostCrankEnrich" units="ms" toexpr="x*0.024" frexpr="x/0.024" format="%.3f" min="0" max="6.12" inc="0.024" storagetype="uint8" endian="big"/>
	
<table name="IPW while cranking starter (Main Maps)" category="Startup Fuel" address="52b2" type="2D" level="3" scaling="TimeInjCranking">
		<table name="Coolant Temperature" address="6ff8" type="Y Axis" elements="9" scaling="Temp"/>
	</table>

	<table name="IPW Multiplier vs Coolant Temp #1" category="Startup Fuel" address="3136" type="2D" level="3" scaling="EnrichmentAdj">
		<table name="Coolant Temp" address="6ff8" type="Y Axis" elements="9" scaling="Temp"/>
	</table>

	<table name="IPW Multiplier vs Coolant Temp #2" category="Startup Fuel" address="3126" type="2D" level="3" scaling="EnrichmentAdj">
		<table name="Coolant Temp" address="6ff8" type="Y Axis" elements="9" scaling="Temp"/>
	</table>

	<table name="Post-Cranking IPW Adder #1" category="Startup Fuel" address="3146" type="2D" level="2" scaling="PostCrankEnrich">
		<table name="Engine Temp" address="6ff8" type="Y Axis" elements="9" scaling="Temp"/>
	</table>

	<table name="Post-Cranking IPW Adder #2" category="Startup Fuel" address="3156" type="2D" level="2" scaling="PostCrankEnrich">
		<table name="Engine Temp" address="6ff8" type="Y Axis" elements="9" scaling="Temp"/>
	</table>

	<table name="IPW while cranking starter (ALT MAPS)" category="Startup Fuel" address="4a24c" type="2D" level="2" scaling="TimeInjCranking">
		<table name="Coolant Temperature" address="6ff8" type="Y Axis" elements="9" scaling="Temp"/>
	</table>

<scaling name="ISCV_AX2_8" units="% Demand" toexpr="x*100/255" frexpr="x*255/100" format="%.2f" min="0" max="200" inc="0.5" storagetype="uint8" endian="big"/>
	
<table name="ISCV Demand While Cranking Starter" category="Startup" address="3d60" type="2D" level="1" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
		<table name="Coolant Temp" address="6fde" type="Y Axis" elements="8" scaling="Temp"/>
	</table>

	<table name="Initial ISCV Demand with AC OFF (Below 5 MPH)" category="Startup" address="3d38" type="2D" level="3" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
		<table name="Engine Temp" address="70c2" type="Y Axis" elements="8" scaling="Temp"/>
	</table>

	<table name="ISCV Post-Cranking Initial Demand Adder" category="Startup" address="54f4" type="2D" level="1" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
		<table name="Coolant temp" address="6fde" type="Y Axis" elements="8" scaling="Temp"/>
	</table>

I did find these just a few minutes ago with a little more searching: Some of thse already I have but theres a couple I havent seen before. Im posting this info here because there may be a sd2.0 anomolie with some of these tables and Id like to learn more about running on SD and tuning in general.

Quote:

Originally Posted by justastockevo

8858xxxx tables found so far, use at your own risk, please confirm if they work for you.

Code:

 
 
 
<table name="Cranking Primer Initial Pulse" category="Fuel" address="5240" type="2D" level="2" scaling="TimeInjCranking">
 
    <table name="Coolant Temperature" address="7100" type="Y Axis" elements="9" scaling="Temp"/>
 
</table>
 
 
 
<table name="Cranking Primer Initial Pulse (Unused)" category="Fuel" address="32fc" type="2D" level="2" scaling="TimeInjCranking">
 
    <table name="Coolant Temperature" address="7100" type="Y Axis" elements="9" scaling="Temp"/>
 
</table>
 
 
 
 
 
<scaling name="TimeTCOMPCrankingHack" units="Approximate ms" toexpr="x*0.9" frexpr="x/0.9" format="%.1f" min="0" max="500" inc="1" storagetype="uint8" endian="big"/>
 
<table name="Initial Cranking IPW vs Coolant Temp" category="Fuel" address="5F7A" type="2D" level="2" scaling="TimeTCOMPCrankingHack">
 
<table name="Engine Temp" address="711C" type="Y Axis" elements="11" scaling="Temp"/>
 
</table>
 
 
 
<scaling name="Percent (128)" units="Percent (%)" toexpr="x/1.28" frexpr="x*1.28" format="%.0f" min="0" max="100" inc="1" storagetype="uint8" endian="big"/>
 
<table name="Cranking IPW Compensation vs Time" category="Fuel" type="2D" level="2" scaling="Percent (128)" address="323E">
 
  <table name="Time Since Engaging Starter (sec)" type="Static Y Axis" elements="20">
 
    <data>0.000</data>
 
    <data>0.022</data>
 
    <data>0.044</data>
 
    <data>0.066</data>
 
    <data>0.088</data>
 
    <data>0.110</data>
 
    <data>0.132</data>
 
    <data>0.154</data>
 
    <data>0.176</data>
 
    <data>0.198</data>
 
    <data>0.220</data>
 
    <data>0.242</data>
 
    <data>0.264</data>
 
    <data>0.286</data>
 
    <data>0.308</data>
 
    <data>0.330</data>
 
    <data>0.352</data>
 
    <data>0.374</data>
 
    <data>0.396</data>
 
    <data>0.418</data>
 
  </table>
 
</table>
 
 
 
 
 
<scaling name="Percent64(8-bit)" units="%" toexpr="100*x/64" frexpr="64*x/100" format="%.0f" min="0" max="400" inc="1" storagetype="uint8" endian="big"/>  
 
 
 
<table name="BFPW Startup Comp vs Coolant Temp #1" category="Fuel" address="3146" type="2D" level="2" scaling="Percent64(8-bit)">
 
  <table name="Coolant Temp" address="7100" type="Y Axis" elements="9" scaling="Temp"/>
 
</table>
 
 
 
<table name="BFPW Startup Comp vs Coolant Temp #2" category="Fuel" address="3156" type="2D" level="2" scaling="Percent64(8-bit)">
 
  <table name="Coolant Temp" address="7100" type="Y Axis" elements="9" scaling="Temp"/>
 
</table>
 
 
 
<table name="MAF Comp vs Coolant Temp #1" category="Fuel" address="3136" type="2D" level="1" scaling="uint8">
 
  <table name="Coolant Temp" address="7100" type="Y Axis" elements="9" scaling="Temp"/>
 
</table>
 
 
 
<table name="MAF Comp vs Coolant Temp #2" category="Fuel" address="3126" type="2D" level="1" scaling="uint8">
 
  <table name="Coolant Temp" address="7100" type="Y Axis" elements="9" scaling="Temp"/>
 
</table>
 
 
 
 
 
<scaling name="LT Trim Hz" units="Hz" toexpr="x*6.29" frexpr="x/6.29" format="%.0f" min="0" max="1610" inc="6.29" storagetype="uint8" endian="big"/>
 
<table name="Closed Loop - LT Trim Control Ranges" category="Fuel" address="3021" type="2D" level="1" scaling="LT Trim Hz">
 
  <table name="Conditions" type="Static Y Axis" elements="4">
 
  <data>Low -> Mid</data>
 
  <data>Mid -> Low</data>
 
  <data>Mid -> High</data>
 
  <data>High -> Mid</data>
 
  </table>
 
</table>
 
 
 
<scaling name="AirDensComp" units="Air Density Correction" toexpr="x/129" frexpr="x/129" format="%.3f" min="0" max="2" inc="0.01" storagetype="uint8" endian="big"/>
 
 
 
<table name="Air Density Compensation for Load And IPW" category="Misc" type="2D" level="2" scaling="AirDensComp" address="30fe">
 
  <table name="MAF Air Temp" type="Y Axis" elements="8" scaling="Temp" address="7252"/>
 
</table>

Last edited by 211Ratsbud; May 27, 2013 at 06:13 AM.

May 27, 2013 | 10:47 AM

#702

donner

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 211ratsbud

Yes I am haha. Here's the same for 8858, I found there was two tables of "ISCV Post-Cranking Initial Demand Adder", there is some bit flag making selection between these two. I added these both.

Code:

<scaling name="ISCV_AX2_8" units="% Demand" toexpr="x*100/255" frexpr="x*255/100" format="%.2f" min="0" max="200" inc="0.5" storagetype="uint8" endian="big"/>
    
<scaling name="PostCrankEnrich" units="ms" toexpr="x*0.024" frexpr="x/0.024" format="%.3f" min="0" max="6.12" inc="0.024" storagetype="uint8" endian="big"/>
    
<table name="IPW while cranking starter (Main Maps)" category="Startup Fuel" address="5240" type="2D" level="3" scaling="TimeInjCranking">
 <table name="Coolant Temperature" address="7100" type="Y Axis" elements="9" scaling="Temp"/>
    </table>

<table name="IPW Multiplier vs Coolant Temp #1" category="Startup Fuel" address="3136" type="2D" level="3" scaling="EnrichmentAdj">
<table name="Coolant Temp" address="7100" type="Y Axis" elements="9" scaling="Temp"/>
    </table>

<table name="IPW Multiplier vs Coolant Temp #2" category="Startup Fuel" address="3126" type="2D" level="3" scaling="EnrichmentAdj">
<table name="Coolant Temp" address="7100" type="Y Axis" elements="9" scaling="Temp"/>
    </table>

<table name="Post-Cranking IPW Adder #1" category="Startup Fuel" address="3146" type="2D" level="2" scaling="PostCrankEnrich">
<table name="Engine Temp" address="7100" type="Y Axis" elements="9" scaling="Temp"/>
    </table>

<table name="Post-Cranking IPW Adder #2" category="Startup Fuel" address="3156" type="2D" level="2" scaling="PostCrankEnrich">
<table name="Engine Temp" address="7100" type="Y Axis" elements="9" scaling="Temp"/>
    </table>

<table name="IPW while cranking starter (ALT MAPS)" category="Startup Fuel" address="3824c" type="2D" level="2" scaling="TimeInjCranking">
 <table name="Coolant Temperature" address="7100" type="Y Axis" elements="9" scaling="Temp"/>
    </table>

<scaling name="ISCV_AX2_8" units="% Demand" toexpr="x*100/255" frexpr="x*255/100" format="%.2f" min="0" max="200" inc="0.5" storagetype="uint8" endian="big"/>
    
<table name="ISCV Demand While Cranking Starter" category="Startup" address="3d84" type="2D" level="1" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="Coolant Temp" address="70e6" type="Y Axis" elements="8" scaling="Temp"/>
    </table>

<table name="Initial ISCV Demand with AC OFF (Below 5 MPH)" category="Startup" address="3d5c" type="2D" level="3" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
 <table name="Engine Temp" address="71ca" type="Y Axis" elements="8" scaling="Temp"/>
    </table>

<table name="ISCV Post-Cranking Initial Demand Adder #1" category="Startup" address="5474" type="2D" level="1" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="Coolant temp" address="70e6" type="Y Axis" elements="8" scaling="Temp"/>
    </table>

<table name="ISCV Post-Cranking Initial Demand Adder #2" category="Startup" address="5482" type="2D" level="1" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
 <table name="Coolant temp" address="70e6" type="Y Axis" elements="8" scaling="Temp"/>
    </table>

Last edited by donner; May 27, 2013 at 10:50 AM.

May 27, 2013 | 12:16 PM

#703

211Ratsbud

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Very much appreciated donner. Im in the process of clearing up the 8858 xml, and rearranging some things getting rid of the duplicate or inaccurate listings. So this is a big help in being complete(or as to 8859 as we can ).

May 28, 2013 | 12:10 PM

#704

todd6027

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Any chance of same for 88570008 , Donner ??? just the basics nothing fancy lol

Last edited by todd6027; May 28, 2013 at 12:12 PM.

Jun 11, 2013 | 09:40 AM

#705

MercenaryX2

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From: Overland Park, KS

I'm kinda confused as to how you could tune SD while in vacuum since the maps are all setup to read positive pressure. I mean the lowest it goes is 10 KPA which is 1.4 PSI. So how exactly does the 3D VE table effect cruise and idle areas?