Gas with Corn Oil
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Evolving Member
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From: The Woodlands, TX
Gas with Corn Oil
Hey guys ive been hearig about gas going to contain "corn oil" i recieved this email today and it freaked me out because it has dates of arrival. The email is long so read it and tell me what you think about it. As of now its only affecting Houston and Dallas!!!
Subject: Ethanol Gasoline is coming to Houston (and Dallas) -- some
things you should know
As you may already be aware, Houston has been designated as one of only
two city regions in Texas to begin receiving Reformulated Gasoline with
Ethanol (RFG) in the continuing effort to reduce our local air pollution levels.
(The Dallas area is the other 'lucky' region.)
Following is a compilation of information taken from various industry
sources regarding the status and timing of the region's planned
transition to ethanol gasoline, as well as some key points about how we
are all about to be affected by this significant change. Since the
various news media have not yet figured out 'there's a story here', much
of the downside of this transition is yet to publicly surface. The
information here is offered strictly to assist you in making informed
decisions as to where you purchase your fuel over the next few months.
Ethanol, otherwise known as ethyl alcohol (and once known as corn liquor
in certain parts of the US) has been designated as the 'additive of
choice' in many part of the United States to help reduce the level of
Volatile Organic Carbons (VOC's) and oxides of nitrogen and sulfur which
are introduced into the atmosphere by all internal combustion engines.
Ethanol is replacing MTBE, a better (for engines) and less expensive
additive mandated by the federal government some years ago. However,
MTBE also proved to be particularly efficient in its ability to move out
from leaking underground storage tanks (UST's) into the surrounding soil
and groundwater resources, hence the need to find an alternative
additive.
The local counties that have been designated as RFG areas are: Harris,
Brazoria, Chambers, Fort Bend, Galveston, Liberty, Montgomery and
Waller. This means that all gasoline sold within these counties will be
required to contain ethanol. State law requires that decals will be
posted on all fueling point dispensers that say the fuel "contains 10%
ethanol" or that it "contains up to 10% ethanol".
Right now, the schedule of beginning deliveries by the major gasoline
suppliers to their stations in this area is as follows:
Exxon: April 4th
Shell: April 12th
Citgo: April 15th
Conoco: April 16th
Valero: April 16th
Chevron: April 18th
Texaco: April 18th
I'm not suggesting that these are the only people you could or should
buy your gas from. But this is where the 'downside' story begins and
it's some pretty important stuff when it comes to the wellbeing of your
car.
The key thing to understand about ethanol is that it is soluble in
water. This means that water and ethanol mix freely, whereas water and
gasoline do not mix - they are insoluble, meaning that gasoline and
water remain in separate 'phases' when they are in contact with each
other - including in the UST's beneath your favorite gas station. The
gas typically floats on top of any water and sludge accumulated in the
bottom of the tanks. (This is also why you may have heard it's never a
good idea to buy your gasoline at a station when the fuel supply truck
is there filling up the tanks. The high speed pumping of the fresh gas
into the UST stirs up the bottom water and sediment which can then end
up in your gas tank.)
Right now, the industry seems fairly united in their recognition that as
little as one-half of one percent (0.5%) of water in a UST will cause
"serious phase separation with the ethanol gasoline blend". Folks,
that's not much water. And whereas that water used to sit idly by in
the bottom of a UST, it's now going to mix freely with the ethanol
gasoline on its way to your gas tank and motor!
Virtually all UST's are known to contain various amounts of water,
either from unintentional punctures, rust-outs or leaking valves or from
intentional means. Did you know that most tanks contain a 'spill
bucket' around the filler neck of the tank, right beneath the ground
level manhole cover? When it rains, the spill bucket catches any rain
run-off that drops down from the store's tarmac. When the guy shows up
with the big gasoline truck to refill the UST's, guess where the water
in the spill bucket goes? That's right - he lifts the bucket an inch or
two and the valve in the bottom of the bucket drops the water into the
UST! This hasn't been a problem with non-RFG gasoline, but because of
ethanol's solubility with water, this is a HUGE problem with RFG gas.
Needless to say, the truck drivers are being advised to change their
spill bucket procedures with the new ethanol gasoline. Let's hope they
actually do it.
Depending on their financial resources, gas stations are going to handle
'the water problem' in different ways. The major suppliers and their
'company' stores (typically identifiable by their more elaborate
landscaping and overall cleanliness) already have tank cleaning
companies going around to their locations to clean and remove the sludge
and 'water bottoms' from their tanks. This is the best solution but,
obviously, it's also the most expensive. However, from their own past
experience, they also want to be sure they minimize the number of claims
they get from car owners whose vehicles have quit running because of a
tank of 'bad gas'.
For those gas suppliers and stations with more limited resources, the
second best alternative is to install new disposable filters on their
fuel dispensers. While most already have some sort of filtration on
their systems, the ethanol gas requires a different kind of filter and
they will have to be changed much more frequently at first. Will they
actually do that or will they try to save a little money? (I doubt that
trying to change the fuel line filter in your own car more often will
have any effect, since it's already much coarser than the 10 micron
filters being mentioned for gas stations).
Now we come to the 'Mom and Pop' stores. What, if anything, are they
going to do (or can they afford to do) about their water problem? Your
guess is as good as mine but over the next several months, and for my
own piece of mind, I'll be avoiding those locations. This may not be
the best time to be buying from the absolutely lowest-priced gas
station, particularly if it's a small, unbranded station. (Remember
that this whole issue only involves those counties listed at the
beginning of the piece).
Several other points to be made about ethanol gasoline:
* The industry does not yet seem to have a clear picture of how
much your gas mileage will drop using ethanol gasoline - but they are clear
on one thing - your gas mileage will drop. Figures have been cited from
as little as a 5% reduction in gas mileage to as high as 20-25%. I
guess we'll all have to wait and see.
* The consequences of getting a bad tank of gas in your own car
can vary significantly, from having to change the spark plugs and fuel
filter, to the repair and/or replacement of multi-hundred dollar items
such as fouled fuel injectors, air mass meter, catalytic converter, to a
complete engine rebuild for such things as burned pistons, piston rings,
or valves.
* The only 'anecdotal' piece of information I have received about
ethanol gasoline, i.e., I have not yet been able to confirm this through
any type of 'official' source, is that ethanol gasoline is going to be a
problem for all 2-cycle gas engines such as string trimmers, leaf
blowers, as well as some jet-skis, 4-wheelers, lawn mowers and
motorcycles. Any engine where 2-cycle oil must be mixed with the
gasoline, either in advance or 'on-the-fly' while the engine is running,
is apparently going to have significant problems with ethanol gasoline.
Most of the indications I've gotten are that the engines won't run at
all! I just don't know that for certain right now so this is just a
warning of a potential problem.
I hope you have found this information useful and I wish you 'good
hunting' for your gasoline supplies during this critical switchover
period.
Jack Schlemmer
Subject: Ethanol Gasoline is coming to Houston (and Dallas) -- some
things you should know
As you may already be aware, Houston has been designated as one of only
two city regions in Texas to begin receiving Reformulated Gasoline with
Ethanol (RFG) in the continuing effort to reduce our local air pollution levels.
(The Dallas area is the other 'lucky' region.)
Following is a compilation of information taken from various industry
sources regarding the status and timing of the region's planned
transition to ethanol gasoline, as well as some key points about how we
are all about to be affected by this significant change. Since the
various news media have not yet figured out 'there's a story here', much
of the downside of this transition is yet to publicly surface. The
information here is offered strictly to assist you in making informed
decisions as to where you purchase your fuel over the next few months.
Ethanol, otherwise known as ethyl alcohol (and once known as corn liquor
in certain parts of the US) has been designated as the 'additive of
choice' in many part of the United States to help reduce the level of
Volatile Organic Carbons (VOC's) and oxides of nitrogen and sulfur which
are introduced into the atmosphere by all internal combustion engines.
Ethanol is replacing MTBE, a better (for engines) and less expensive
additive mandated by the federal government some years ago. However,
MTBE also proved to be particularly efficient in its ability to move out
from leaking underground storage tanks (UST's) into the surrounding soil
and groundwater resources, hence the need to find an alternative
additive.
The local counties that have been designated as RFG areas are: Harris,
Brazoria, Chambers, Fort Bend, Galveston, Liberty, Montgomery and
Waller. This means that all gasoline sold within these counties will be
required to contain ethanol. State law requires that decals will be
posted on all fueling point dispensers that say the fuel "contains 10%
ethanol" or that it "contains up to 10% ethanol".
Right now, the schedule of beginning deliveries by the major gasoline
suppliers to their stations in this area is as follows:
Exxon: April 4th
Shell: April 12th
Citgo: April 15th
Conoco: April 16th
Valero: April 16th
Chevron: April 18th
Texaco: April 18th
I'm not suggesting that these are the only people you could or should
buy your gas from. But this is where the 'downside' story begins and
it's some pretty important stuff when it comes to the wellbeing of your
car.
The key thing to understand about ethanol is that it is soluble in
water. This means that water and ethanol mix freely, whereas water and
gasoline do not mix - they are insoluble, meaning that gasoline and
water remain in separate 'phases' when they are in contact with each
other - including in the UST's beneath your favorite gas station. The
gas typically floats on top of any water and sludge accumulated in the
bottom of the tanks. (This is also why you may have heard it's never a
good idea to buy your gasoline at a station when the fuel supply truck
is there filling up the tanks. The high speed pumping of the fresh gas
into the UST stirs up the bottom water and sediment which can then end
up in your gas tank.)
Right now, the industry seems fairly united in their recognition that as
little as one-half of one percent (0.5%) of water in a UST will cause
"serious phase separation with the ethanol gasoline blend". Folks,
that's not much water. And whereas that water used to sit idly by in
the bottom of a UST, it's now going to mix freely with the ethanol
gasoline on its way to your gas tank and motor!
Virtually all UST's are known to contain various amounts of water,
either from unintentional punctures, rust-outs or leaking valves or from
intentional means. Did you know that most tanks contain a 'spill
bucket' around the filler neck of the tank, right beneath the ground
level manhole cover? When it rains, the spill bucket catches any rain
run-off that drops down from the store's tarmac. When the guy shows up
with the big gasoline truck to refill the UST's, guess where the water
in the spill bucket goes? That's right - he lifts the bucket an inch or
two and the valve in the bottom of the bucket drops the water into the
UST! This hasn't been a problem with non-RFG gasoline, but because of
ethanol's solubility with water, this is a HUGE problem with RFG gas.
Needless to say, the truck drivers are being advised to change their
spill bucket procedures with the new ethanol gasoline. Let's hope they
actually do it.
Depending on their financial resources, gas stations are going to handle
'the water problem' in different ways. The major suppliers and their
'company' stores (typically identifiable by their more elaborate
landscaping and overall cleanliness) already have tank cleaning
companies going around to their locations to clean and remove the sludge
and 'water bottoms' from their tanks. This is the best solution but,
obviously, it's also the most expensive. However, from their own past
experience, they also want to be sure they minimize the number of claims
they get from car owners whose vehicles have quit running because of a
tank of 'bad gas'.
For those gas suppliers and stations with more limited resources, the
second best alternative is to install new disposable filters on their
fuel dispensers. While most already have some sort of filtration on
their systems, the ethanol gas requires a different kind of filter and
they will have to be changed much more frequently at first. Will they
actually do that or will they try to save a little money? (I doubt that
trying to change the fuel line filter in your own car more often will
have any effect, since it's already much coarser than the 10 micron
filters being mentioned for gas stations).
Now we come to the 'Mom and Pop' stores. What, if anything, are they
going to do (or can they afford to do) about their water problem? Your
guess is as good as mine but over the next several months, and for my
own piece of mind, I'll be avoiding those locations. This may not be
the best time to be buying from the absolutely lowest-priced gas
station, particularly if it's a small, unbranded station. (Remember
that this whole issue only involves those counties listed at the
beginning of the piece).
Several other points to be made about ethanol gasoline:
* The industry does not yet seem to have a clear picture of how
much your gas mileage will drop using ethanol gasoline - but they are clear
on one thing - your gas mileage will drop. Figures have been cited from
as little as a 5% reduction in gas mileage to as high as 20-25%. I
guess we'll all have to wait and see.
* The consequences of getting a bad tank of gas in your own car
can vary significantly, from having to change the spark plugs and fuel
filter, to the repair and/or replacement of multi-hundred dollar items
such as fouled fuel injectors, air mass meter, catalytic converter, to a
complete engine rebuild for such things as burned pistons, piston rings,
or valves.
* The only 'anecdotal' piece of information I have received about
ethanol gasoline, i.e., I have not yet been able to confirm this through
any type of 'official' source, is that ethanol gasoline is going to be a
problem for all 2-cycle gas engines such as string trimmers, leaf
blowers, as well as some jet-skis, 4-wheelers, lawn mowers and
motorcycles. Any engine where 2-cycle oil must be mixed with the
gasoline, either in advance or 'on-the-fly' while the engine is running,
is apparently going to have significant problems with ethanol gasoline.
Most of the indications I've gotten are that the engines won't run at
all! I just don't know that for certain right now so this is just a
warning of a potential problem.
I hope you have found this information useful and I wish you 'good
hunting' for your gasoline supplies during this critical switchover
period.
Jack Schlemmer
I get gas when I eat corn oil too...try olive oil instead, easier on the bowels.
Hopefully we can find which stations will stick with the old stuff. I usually get my gas at Racetrac, so I'm glad that I don't see them on the schedule yet. I did pickup some Shell gas in Galveston and Centerville this weekend, guess it's still the old stuff.
Hopefully we can find which stations will stick with the old stuff. I usually get my gas at Racetrac, so I'm glad that I don't see them on the schedule yet. I did pickup some Shell gas in Galveston and Centerville this weekend, guess it's still the old stuff.
04_evo, that doesn't make any sense. Using ethanol or "corn oil" as everyone is falsely mislabeling it (it is but it isn't, its purified) actually helps the environment, burns cooler and is cheaper. Some GM vehicles even run automatically switchable to E85 (85% ethanol)
By using ethanol we are freed from the grip of eastern oil.
Some strong points to consider. Ethanol is hydroscopic, it absorbs water. It is also corrosive to certain rubber parts on older vehicles.
Ethanol also burns cooler and causes the stoichiometric ratio to go way down, nearly reuiring TWICE as much fuel as gasoline.
It also burns invisibly, which can be dangerous.
Otherwise, it can be made from a variety of purified natural farm products and is nothing but beneficial.
Methanol is a different animal, even so, you must have seen the benefits of meth injection on Evo's and other cars. Ethanol will do almost the same in some cases....but this is the break that we should all be hoping for.
Cheaper fuels made right here in the USA, burning cleaner, making more power and advancing engine technology in terms of power production and effeciency quite a bit.
And FYI, I have tested each one of these fuels, even running 1/4 a tank of E85 in my car mixed with 93 and I can say the car ran just fine, even if I did lose a bit of gas mileage, but I did see cooler engine temos.
Its not harder, its an easy transition and once it all goes mainstream, we will reap the benefits. Relax
By the way, I went back and read it a second time and I can't believe that there wasn't some sort of negative force pushing that report/email.
There are negatives, but there are many positives to ethanol fuel.....it will take some adapting, but using alchohol burning engines will inevitably be the future of vehicles.
Just like when EFI started taking over. Power production STUNK, 350ci engines were making 250 horsepower in the early 90's, some even worse.
Look at today, our Evo's wouldn't make half the power they do without EFI....so there was a big change that I have proof of the negative reception of it on a main-scale basis....there STILL are people who insist that "carbs are the way to go cuz dey's simple"....
By using ethanol we are freed from the grip of eastern oil.
Some strong points to consider. Ethanol is hydroscopic, it absorbs water. It is also corrosive to certain rubber parts on older vehicles.
Ethanol also burns cooler and causes the stoichiometric ratio to go way down, nearly reuiring TWICE as much fuel as gasoline.
It also burns invisibly, which can be dangerous.
Otherwise, it can be made from a variety of purified natural farm products and is nothing but beneficial.
Methanol is a different animal, even so, you must have seen the benefits of meth injection on Evo's and other cars. Ethanol will do almost the same in some cases....but this is the break that we should all be hoping for.
Cheaper fuels made right here in the USA, burning cleaner, making more power and advancing engine technology in terms of power production and effeciency quite a bit.
And FYI, I have tested each one of these fuels, even running 1/4 a tank of E85 in my car mixed with 93 and I can say the car ran just fine, even if I did lose a bit of gas mileage, but I did see cooler engine temos.
Its not harder, its an easy transition and once it all goes mainstream, we will reap the benefits. Relax
By the way, I went back and read it a second time and I can't believe that there wasn't some sort of negative force pushing that report/email.
There are negatives, but there are many positives to ethanol fuel.....it will take some adapting, but using alchohol burning engines will inevitably be the future of vehicles.
Just like when EFI started taking over. Power production STUNK, 350ci engines were making 250 horsepower in the early 90's, some even worse.
Look at today, our Evo's wouldn't make half the power they do without EFI....so there was a big change that I have proof of the negative reception of it on a main-scale basis....there STILL are people who insist that "carbs are the way to go cuz dey's simple"....
Last edited by feldguy; Apr 11, 2006 at 07:19 AM.
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dude, holy one sided argument.
Ethanol is GOOD!!! and yes i may be a liberal tree hugging hippy, but even from a automotive engineers perspective, Ethanol is badass.
here are a few things to point out.
ethanol does have a different stoichiometric ratio then that of gasoline. pure ethanol is 9:1, while gasoline is 14.7:1 the reason for this is the alcohol fuel is considered an oxygenated fuel (it contains oxygen), and as such, requires less oxygen in the air to burn. ethanol mixtures with gasoline move the stoic ratio pretty linearly, so 85% ethanol 15 % gas is 9.8:1 ratio, and 90%gasoline 10% ethanol will be in the neighborhood of 14.2:1. so yes, it will effect your gas mileage... and looking at it strictly from a a/f ratio perspective you will see a decrease in mileage by about 5% tops. again, this is due to the oxygen in the ethanol fuel being used rather then air sucked through your intake. the energy density of the Ethanol is not as high as gasoline, but the increase in fuel required makes up for the lower energy density.
look at it this way, your engine has a bore and a stroke, thus every revolution it will suck in X amount of air/fuel mixture. lets say you use 100% ethanol. you need a 9:1 ratio, and because your engine is going to suck in, say 2.0L of air Natural aspirated every two revolutions, the fuel will be added takes up only a small percent of that volume because it is still largely in a "liquid" form (although the level of atomization, location of injectors, temp of fuel, temp of air all take effect in this). so you see, we are still able to get considerably more fuel in the cylinder to burn dispite the fact that it has less energy then gasoline when it burns. it essentially balances out
now here is where the benefits come in play, especially for a turbo car. turbo cars heat the air significately through adiabatic compression (and more so do to inefficient adiabatic compression). as an example lets say you run a pressure ratio of 2 (or about 14.7 psig boost pressure). your air coming out of the turbo is going to be about 100 deg F hotter. assuming a perfectly efficient turbo. the intercooler (assuming you have one) will take a significant amount of temperature out of this, but it can never take it all out. therefor you have hot air going into your engine. the hotter the air, the more prone to knock you are. the ethanol has a much higher latent heat of vaporization then gasoline when you take into account the increase in fuel required. and as such the fuel when it vaporizes can actually bring the air temps below ambient. something gasoline WITH an intercooler can never do. what does this mean? well it means you can run more BOOST!!!! you can increase the boost (Which increases temps), but the fuel itself decreases the temps. as an example, our race car has a compression ratio of 11.5:1. we run on top of that 10psig of boost, with NO intercooler. we use E85 fuel. this would be impossible with gasoline as you would detonate immediately.
if there were E85 pumps redily availible in my area, i would convert my evo over immediately. as it would be like using a alky injection kit as your primary fuel
some of the things mentioned are correct about ethanol though, it is corrosive to certain materials. however, it will not damage you MAF sensor because fuel doesn't go through that sensor. automobile manufactures are smart enough to know that in certain places they already run ethanol in your fuel (in michigan we had ethanol in our gas IIRC). and they will have planned accordingly. you will not have catastrophic engine failure because they are adding corn alcohol to your gas.
we should be begging for more ethanol in our fuel, if not for the increase in boost, but certainly to reduce our demand from middle eastern oil, decrease in the amount of harmful oil rigs, and well drilling going on around the world, and to extend the already dwindling life of the internal combustion engine.
whoever wrote that letter definiately has an agenda.
Ethanol is GOOD!!! and yes i may be a liberal tree hugging hippy, but even from a automotive engineers perspective, Ethanol is badass.
here are a few things to point out.
ethanol does have a different stoichiometric ratio then that of gasoline. pure ethanol is 9:1, while gasoline is 14.7:1 the reason for this is the alcohol fuel is considered an oxygenated fuel (it contains oxygen), and as such, requires less oxygen in the air to burn. ethanol mixtures with gasoline move the stoic ratio pretty linearly, so 85% ethanol 15 % gas is 9.8:1 ratio, and 90%gasoline 10% ethanol will be in the neighborhood of 14.2:1. so yes, it will effect your gas mileage... and looking at it strictly from a a/f ratio perspective you will see a decrease in mileage by about 5% tops. again, this is due to the oxygen in the ethanol fuel being used rather then air sucked through your intake. the energy density of the Ethanol is not as high as gasoline, but the increase in fuel required makes up for the lower energy density.
look at it this way, your engine has a bore and a stroke, thus every revolution it will suck in X amount of air/fuel mixture. lets say you use 100% ethanol. you need a 9:1 ratio, and because your engine is going to suck in, say 2.0L of air Natural aspirated every two revolutions, the fuel will be added takes up only a small percent of that volume because it is still largely in a "liquid" form (although the level of atomization, location of injectors, temp of fuel, temp of air all take effect in this). so you see, we are still able to get considerably more fuel in the cylinder to burn dispite the fact that it has less energy then gasoline when it burns. it essentially balances out
now here is where the benefits come in play, especially for a turbo car. turbo cars heat the air significately through adiabatic compression (and more so do to inefficient adiabatic compression). as an example lets say you run a pressure ratio of 2 (or about 14.7 psig boost pressure). your air coming out of the turbo is going to be about 100 deg F hotter. assuming a perfectly efficient turbo. the intercooler (assuming you have one) will take a significant amount of temperature out of this, but it can never take it all out. therefor you have hot air going into your engine. the hotter the air, the more prone to knock you are. the ethanol has a much higher latent heat of vaporization then gasoline when you take into account the increase in fuel required. and as such the fuel when it vaporizes can actually bring the air temps below ambient. something gasoline WITH an intercooler can never do. what does this mean? well it means you can run more BOOST!!!! you can increase the boost (Which increases temps), but the fuel itself decreases the temps. as an example, our race car has a compression ratio of 11.5:1. we run on top of that 10psig of boost, with NO intercooler. we use E85 fuel. this would be impossible with gasoline as you would detonate immediately.
if there were E85 pumps redily availible in my area, i would convert my evo over immediately. as it would be like using a alky injection kit as your primary fuel
some of the things mentioned are correct about ethanol though, it is corrosive to certain materials. however, it will not damage you MAF sensor because fuel doesn't go through that sensor. automobile manufactures are smart enough to know that in certain places they already run ethanol in your fuel (in michigan we had ethanol in our gas IIRC). and they will have planned accordingly. you will not have catastrophic engine failure because they are adding corn alcohol to your gas.
we should be begging for more ethanol in our fuel, if not for the increase in boost, but certainly to reduce our demand from middle eastern oil, decrease in the amount of harmful oil rigs, and well drilling going on around the world, and to extend the already dwindling life of the internal combustion engine.
whoever wrote that letter definiately has an agenda.
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
From: The Woodlands, TX
well it looks like some of you guys are more informed in ethanol than I am. I don't know all the up and down sides about it. It was just a concern of mine that it could affect our evos or any other high performance car. If its better great, I am currently researching everything about ethanol and gasoline mixtures.
Now about the dates stated in the email about the major gas/oil companies I do not know if its true. I myself haven't seen it at any shell gas station, and but I filled up sunday (april 9). Great input from anyone, the more the better.
Now about the dates stated in the email about the major gas/oil companies I do not know if its true. I myself haven't seen it at any shell gas station, and but I filled up sunday (april 9). Great input from anyone, the more the better.
EVO316, I was stating way to look out brother.....
It just so happens that this isn't a bad thing!! Some of the most powerful cars in the world run on alchohol, IHRA "Alky Funny and Dragster", Outlaw Oval guys...boats.....etc etc.
KevinD, I actually feel smart for once!!! All that reading has finally paid off, even if for a small audience.
It just so happens that this isn't a bad thing!! Some of the most powerful cars in the world run on alchohol, IHRA "Alky Funny and Dragster", Outlaw Oval guys...boats.....etc etc.
KevinD, I actually feel smart for once!!! All that reading has finally paid off, even if for a small audience.
there is one major problem i forgot to mention about ethanol. because it comes from crops generally (corn), this natural resource is extremely dependant on gobal climates. to have your gas prices fluctuate with drought, famine, starvation, flooding, etc, would make the global market for ethanol extremely volatile and suseptable to massive price spikes. however in the near future i believe gasoline is going to be worse to rely on (as we can already see by the 3 dollars a gallon i just filled up for).
