Wow Tom, 90% of us on here are weekend racers including me. Are you saying Wilson doesnt owe us any testing on a 2500.00 Manifold?

Cuz i damn sure wanna make sure im getting my moneys worth if im spending that kind of $$$

 

I'm a weekend racer too, but I still have enough intelligence to not second guess a professional organization that builds high end manifolds for fuel cars, pro stockers and now our Evos. As for "Owing" us, what ever happened to respect for a professional company and it's employees. The same employees that have been doing the exact same thing for 30 years. Not building transmissions today, exhausts tomorrow and who knows what in the future. It's obvious by their clients and results in the professional racing ranks that these are NOT just any old shop coming up with an idea. No other Evo manifold builder has the test equipment that Wilson Manifolds has. There are some things such as test data that stays, for competitive reasons, proprietary. Several 'lurking' EvoM'ers have alreay placed orders for these manifolds. The reputations of those customers is beyond what I would call the casual racer. One of them might be a weekend racer, but his background and car says "quality". Not everyone demands nor expects every company to 'comparison test' . Looking at a hot horseshoe just doesn't take that long. No one is being put down. Again, I'm also a weekend (actually lucky if I'm a monthly) racer. I just don't expect every vendor to do my comparisons for me. Sometimes it takes the purchaser to be willing to share his results. That's why I said, "The results will speak for themselves". No put down what so ever. It's just that sometimes we need to do somethings for ourselves too. If they posted data, in these threads it would be called biased or "I don't believe it". So in the end, the best tests will be made by the purchasers.

 

DB, I remember the bet, but not the 'guidellines'. The first one was whether it would be built, but it seems that the next one we talked about the last few times was the power level. Not sure how we measure that, since your dyno's been recallibrated and our car is changed. I DO remember the amount though. We may have to settle on buying $500 worth of beer for each other, then we'll leave the bar.

 

looks badass,very tempting

 

I realize Wilson is a well established company. I dont think they have been building forced induction 4cyl manifolds for 30 years though. the only other billet manifold i recall them making was a honda B series Manifold. So your saying we must purchase the manifold on the name only? there wont be any comparison data against other manifolds? The wilson v2 was sure thoroughly tested and compared against many manifolds on the market. why the change of heart now? The wilson was 1550.00 when it was originally released. can we expect this manifold to drop by 30% also once the hype settles down. Thanks for help with all the questions. I just cant afford to make a 2500.00 mistake on a critical part if my new setup.

 

Valid points there, and its an AMAZING looking product. But again, no one is second guessing the possibilities of a Wilson manifold, but want the peace of mind knowing that it out performs every other manifold on the market.

If you look back 3 or 4 years when AMS made a sick one they marketed it and many purchased it.. The only thing was it was meant for a specific purpose. A 42R or bigger. Everyone else who used it with small stock or 30/35R turbos were not getting the proper performance out of the manifold. We like testing for the sake of knowing what is the proper tool for the job. If it makes serious power on stock/red/30/35r turbos then bingo. if its only for the "serious" so called fan boy then its not for most. When you invest $2500.00 on a part you expect it to dominate, not edge out the competition.

 

Any performance part sold whether its a spark plug or a $2,500 intake manifold should be backed up with results... Regaurdless who made it...

 

I have to politely disagree with you sir, having a reputable builder is a plus however, i will not invest such amount without objective results nor comparisson to other leading brands....its simply being irresponsible as a consumer!

 

Tom, I know you can drink some beer and I know how much I can drink (not much!) and if the two of us are going to spend $500 on beer in a bar it's either going to have to be a very expensive bar or maybe have a side rule that we can use some of that for tip money, so there would be a few vertical brass poles throughout the bar! haha

My dyno is open at anytime for you to use/test privately if you want it. Baseline the car with the V2 or the new billet intake and if you want to continue from there, we'll swap "another" one on and see what happens. It is entirely up to you but as always Mi dyno es su dyno.

I think because most new parts being released have been released with some type of dyno sheet you are going to have a tough sale based on Wilson's name, or John Force's or anyone else's. Hell I've been building 4G63 parts for 20 years and still need to provide data when I change something. It's not my business and I am certainly not giving you grief one way or another but you are welcome, as I said, to do private testing here. You know how to run the dyno. Good luck with it all regardless.

 

Skunk2's new cast manifold LOOKED really nice too, but we all know how well that performed. In my opinion, to make it in this business you need the support of the weekend racer along with the daily's who are convinced their car is a racecar for the streets and those are the guys who demand the comparisons, etc. $2500 is a lot for a manifold with only a name to back it up no matter how you look at it

 

not to name names but wasn't the old magnus sheet metal manifold the greatest thing since sliced bread purchased souly on the magnus till someone came along and ran a test and found out it wasn't what we all thought? not saying magnus or wilson makes bad products and im sure things were tested but we just like to see that stuff before we give our hard earned cash out.

 

^^^ Couldn't agree more.

 

I'd like to see testing at least to show where this mani shines and where it doesn't...

How's top end power compared to low end...is this geared mainly for the straight line guy or can it work just as well for the twisty lovers.

For the price of this mani I would like to see it tested as proper as I believe a intake mani test could be done and that's on an engine dyno compared to it's much less expensive counterparts.

With Wilson's history I'm sure they've used engine dyno's for testing/comparisson's before.

In the end of the day I'm sure it will perform, the question is...How does it compare to it's much less expensive competition.

 

DB, I agree with what you've said. The issue is the MANUFACTURER providing the comparison tests or proprietary data. Take the cams tests. AMS did the testing, not the manufacturers. Now, take the manifold tests. YOU did that test, and test, and test... Nearly every 'Power' part that's built gets tested by one of the vendors, somewhere, sometime. Not the manufacturer. They produce the part and it's results, good and bad get posted in time. As for the manifold, enough 'design' issues are known by many just by observation. Other data isn't so obvious. Flow at what psi, RPM range for maximum power, etc. I'll give HOW the beginning took place:
First, before the W2, W2.3, W2.3+ was even created, I was told that I could have a billet manifold if I wanted one. HELL YES!!! was my answer. Next, I began to answer the questions based on known facts about our car. We knew the RPM range we would operate in. We knew the boost range we would operate in. We knew, based on the known characteristics of the W1 and at the time, testing of the W2 flow at Wilson's, some of what worked and what the engine liked. Then as the W2 and W2.3 and our own W2.3+ was tested and how it "Liked" certain lengths and dimensions a lot of information was gathered. Some of your own posted data gave validation of tests at Wilson Manifolds. Then, I was asked, on several occassions, what will my NEW operating range be? What is important and what isn't? Remember, we were building a specific manifold for our specific car. Through many question/answer sessions, using proprietary designs internally, our manifold took shape on the computer. This is where ONLY a computer and software can put you in the ball park. Let's stop for a second and see where the "Big names" comes in to play.

Many, many, many hours and days of testing PROVES internally what works and what doesn't. No offense, but they don't make manifolds only to find that they don't even fit on the car due to clearance issues with the firewall. The KNOW in advance. All other specifications are also KNOWN to them in advance. This isn't their first rodeo. They don't use vaccuum where boost pressure is going to be applied. High dollar equipment gets used to validate what they do.

As for the Big Names like the NHRA ProStockers from Summit Racing Greg Anderson and Jason Line. The Forces and several others, with more to come soon DEMAND results. To them, you can talk about specs and comparisons all day long but in the end, it's results that speak volumes. THEY make a living at success. Wilson Manifolds is ONE of the reasons for that success. Now, back to this manifold. These years of experience and knowledge have been applied to OUR manifold. Our operating range is 6500-9500 RPMS, our Wilson Manifolds W2.3+ broke the Buschur RAcing dyno record for a T3 type turbo. Not sure if you've gone over 730 whp in 3rd gear since then, but that's still a huge number on your dyno. Our MPH on each of our FP Turbos gives a strong indication of our whp.
Every one on a Wilson Manifold.

The known test data, the known RPM range of our car, the known results all contribute to the "program". All of these characteristics create the product. Now, it's up to those of us using the product, or a vendor willing to donate the time and/or equipment, like you've offered, to validate the result of all of this effort.

Damn, 1031 miles to your dyno. It wouldn't be my first time, or my last time, that's for sure. I don't think there's another single vendor who's donated more dyno time or test time than you. I don't think I'm going to be buying the beer though. Get your cash ready and make some of it in 1's and 5's.
Thanks for the offer DB. As you know, you and I don't have to agree on anything to be friends and have a beer, or two, or ... I'm out of 1's, got any left?

 

zbomb, I could stand to be corrected by Wilson (remember, I just own the car, not the factory), but this design was made flexible so certain characteristics for different applications can easily be made. RPM range is one of those. As for equipment, I think their testing and manufacturing equipment is beyond reproach.