haha... this is funny Al. He called us. Actually, he PM'd and emailed us. We had nothing to do with it. It's all you Al. Accept it. Learn from it. Move on and stop blaming others for your mistakes.

Shiv

 

thats a load of crap al. You told jason you knew how to tune the car with the XEDE. You knew what I had and you said it would be fine. YOU'RE A LIAR!!!

 

Ah... the old bait and switch

 

You wouldn't tune my car with the XEDE! I asked you to and you wouldn't. You never said you didn't kniw how

 

Al, if you hadn't lied to me and jay, none of this would have happened.

 

^^ thats funny, ive seen you badmouth vishnu products on more than one occassion

 

So your solution was to go home.

I am not obligated to tune Xedes.


Jason and I were talking about this on the phone last night and its funny how he and I have a totally different recolection of the situation. He and I were in touch about your tune and he requested that I reflash your stock ecu to take out the fuel cut and make fine tuning corrections as needed - (IF needed) to dial in your tune. I think the problem in this case is that I never dealt with you and it was Jason who was telling me what was needed and he and I were the ones discussing the situation. I was willing to make slight corrections to your tune to dial it in.

When we did the base pull, it became totally obvious that the car needed a LOT more than a slight correction and a fuel cut removal. In fact your tune was totaly screwed up and just about everything needed to be changed.

I dont have any Xede maps and I did not feel like making one from scracth

It would have been easy to charge you for two hours of dyno time at $185 per hour and another $300 for custom tuning and have your car making the same power you are making now - I felt the honest thing to do was to tell you the truth that the Xede is a product which is overpriced and does not yield any additional performance over a reflash.

Everyone is entitled to his / her own opinion and if your heart is set on an Xede then you should have just gone home.

I told you staight up I did not want to tune your car with the Xede at that point - I asked Pruven if they wanted to tune it and they did not want to either.

I gave you a option - get a reflash for $299 with your dyno time incuded or leave.

No one was ohlding a gun to your head or going to charge you anything if you just left.

Your like a cry baby - you wanted instant gratification of having your car tuned on the spot and now you are complaining that I refused to do what you wanted.

I am offering you back ALL your money - NOW - so you can just get flashed back to stock and move on with your Xede.

YOU were the one who agreed and told your mechanic buddy Jason to remove the Xede.

If you did not want a reflash you should have just gone home and waited for shiv to come to town to tun ethe Xede.

I already posted that I will be happy to remove the flash and refund your money.

I just wish you had been man enough to deal staight up like a person with a spine - say you did not want a flash and go home so everyone, Jason and myself included would not have to waste time on your car. I am sorry but I am not a mind reader - when you said "Yes, I'll try the flash " I did not know that you really ment "I will not be happy unless you tune my Xede" I can't read your mind and when a MAN talks and says something - I assume that is what he means.

Your car runs perefectly at this point and is on the high range of power output for similar mods. I guess some customers are more hard to please than others.

If you want the flash removed - call me and I will come there take it out and hand you your cash back in your hand. What else can I do to please a customer who says one thing and means something else.

 

BUT - you dont see me making up false personal allegations against him which have nothing to do with his products in an attempt to smear his reputation and take away his business.

 

Let it go Al. Why do you want to flash it back to stock so quickly. Don't you want to do a comparison between your custom-tuned flash and our custom tuned XEDE at Turbotrix. Both Mark@TT and I offered free tuning/dyno time based upon your ridiculous comments in the "Reverse challenge" thread. If he gets flashed back to stock before that, we can't do the comparison, right?

Shiv

 

Al man I know your chapped but how can chastising a customer calling him "spineless" and a "cry Baby" be good for the aftermarket. Jeeze please be a bit more levelheaded about that portion. Also we never called anyone so that is a misstatement of the facts also

 

Bro - lets act like the inteligent and educated men that we are for a change and not used car salesmen - OK>?

Take a look at the dyno chart he made on the flash. He was making 317 whp without cams with just an intake, exhuast, MBC and flash - and a fuel pump for safety. That is a safe tune and within reasonable levels of power output and with no knock.

Any additional gains that you can make would be at the compromise of saftey levels and would reduce the margin of error.

Its a zero sum game.

Only idiots would assume that the measure of the quaility or success of a tune is the peak whp achived. As you surely know, there is a lot more to a good tune than peak whp.

I would assume that most customers want saftey margin and a good "feel"

I am sure that I could have squeezed out a few more whp over that - BUT thats not the point.

I leave the record breaking for my own personal car which holds the records for most whp on a 2.0 l Evo in the US with and without race gas.

The dyno sheet of the customer speaks for itself

Its a resonable representation of what to expect from my tuning and how the reflash works

If your $1000 Xede can make more or less power that is really besides the point. My concept is to offer a wide library of base maps which can work on just about any combination of modifications that a customer can throw at me for $199 for a through the mail in flash. In this case your customer was lefet without a suitable base map to use with YOUR product and was so desperate apparently to get his car running that he had to agree to remove his Xede and get a reflash from me. Who's fault is it that your company does not or resues to provide a base map for something as RARE and unusual as a AEM intake ? Why dont you provide some base maps for guys with intakes so they dot have to deal with these problems? Anyway thats your business. My main point is that your $1000 product is not much help unless the customer follows your upgrade path or gets custom tuned by you.

In conclusion - I could care less if this guy wants to keep the fash and let you conduct a tuning experiment on his car - or if he wants to take the flash out of the car. The choice is his. I have nothing to hide as far as my tuning goes - its a great running car and unless you play some dyno tricks or stick an air temp sesnor on his down pipe the flash will preform well in any test at TT.

I am very ashamed of the results of my $299 custom tune with 2 hours dyno time and I surely want to erase that flash quickly !





Thanks

 

Not anymore. Isn't that the reason you were banned last year from Evom for awhile? Then you have to petition your way back in?

You keep saying you don't want to post on others forums. Well....don't.

 

If you are close to GA or you want a road trip I will take a look at your car....or better still have Shiv look at it during the April dyno day

 

I would like to really find out what all this name calling is for? This is getting no one anywhere anytime soon. There are a few simple facts I'd like to point out.

1. If Al claimed to be able to tune the Xede and then he decided he didn't because he felt the car was that out of tune, then I would find that to be professional. Why would he want to take a chance on hurting anyones car especially if you are not comfortable with the system or whats going on with that paticular car. Al might have thought it needed some minor adjustments, but if you look at the before and after dyno sheets you can clearly see that wasn't the case.


2. All customers have a choice and so do the tuners. Al chose not to tune the Xede and the customer chose to have the flash. We certainly could not have tuned it, as all the Pruven employees were busy working on other jobs. The customer actually removed the Xede himself along with installing the fuel pump, 2 things the customer is not happy with so I don't know how that was forced on anyone.

3. The result of the tune is very favorable. I don't see how anyone will get a much better result with anything else.

4. Al has offered money back, which I don't see why, Since the customer left happy but either way you can't really do better than that.

So with those points being noted, what else could anyone ask for? All decisions were made and were agreeed and finally ended with a result that was far superior then when the customer first arrived to the dyno ( This is not to be taken as a bash on a product or taken out of text, just for what it is, the car was not running well on arrival).

Hope this all gets resolved,

Dan @ Pruven

 

BINGO...every car ive seen custon dynoflashed is also accompanied by a boost controller and safc...so add $300 for a safc and $100 for a hallman mbc...that is now $700 which, wouldnt you know it, is only $100 or so less than an XEDE...and with that, they play with their a/f ratio to LEAN it out to make the car faster...their time slips do not fully represent Al's tuning ability

and Al i have seen you on more than one occassion slander Shiv, David and the Vishnu name...i have also first hand heard your customers bash vishnu (customers who have no experience with vishnu products)...so one can only conclude they are repeating what they have heard from your own mouth...dont play Mr. nice guy...everyone on this forum knows about you and how you operate...and thus you are just making yourself look worse

good luck putting vishnu out of business