XEDE boost vs MBC
XEDE boost vs MBC
Ok, so i finally go around to being unlazy and swapping out my Helix Lower IC pipe and putting the stock elbow and Lower IC pipe back on.
Now i am thinking about ditching my Halman MBC and hooking up my XEDE boost control.
My questions are these:
Will I still be able to see my 22-23psi in 5th gear. was custom tuned for around 21-22 in 3rd.
How will I need to setup my table in my V3 xede? I know its the SMART Boost table, how will I need to make it look??
why would hooking up the XEDE boost instead of the MBC be better?
If i go with an alky injection eventually, will I be able to turn up the boost alittle more? same for bigger turbo?? Please give me the inside scoop on pro's and con's?? Im mainly worried about seeing the same boost I see right now on the MBC.
Now i am thinking about ditching my Halman MBC and hooking up my XEDE boost control.
My questions are these:
Will I still be able to see my 22-23psi in 5th gear. was custom tuned for around 21-22 in 3rd.
How will I need to setup my table in my V3 xede? I know its the SMART Boost table, how will I need to make it look??
why would hooking up the XEDE boost instead of the MBC be better?
If i go with an alky injection eventually, will I be able to turn up the boost alittle more? same for bigger turbo?? Please give me the inside scoop on pro's and con's?? Im mainly worried about seeing the same boost I see right now on the MBC.
Originally Posted by atlvalet
WHy did you swap your OEM LIC pipe back in?
because the helix one sucks moneky nuts.
I had issues with the turbo elbow they supply from like the first week of having it, and was still worried about having an issue with it. Just feel more secure having the stock one back on, until i get another LIC that retains the stock turbo elbow.
I think the reason most people are using the XEDE instead of a MBC is because they are sticking around 20PSI and are afraid of the boost spike you get from a MBC. Some people say you get quicker spool with the XEDE method of building up to 100% but I don't think that fraction of a second makes much of a difference on the stock turbo.
With my boost control set to 100% I can hold only 21PSI to 6k then it starts to taper down to 17PSI. If you want to hold 22-23 you will probably need to install a bleeder then reduce the boost map to something like 95% instead of 100% so you dont run too hot. People with alchy are successfully using bleeders for higher boost levels but I don't know if they actually hold that at redline or not.
With my boost control set to 100% I can hold only 21PSI to 6k then it starts to taper down to 17PSI. If you want to hold 22-23 you will probably need to install a bleeder then reduce the boost map to something like 95% instead of 100% so you dont run too hot. People with alchy are successfully using bleeders for higher boost levels but I don't know if they actually hold that at redline or not.
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Newbie
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 66
Likes: 10
From: FLORIDA
I use *both* MBC and Xede...
...I always wanted to be able to have some sort of boost control, especially when the Xede was removed for maintenance or upgrade reasons.
Therefore, here is the trick for making the best use of you MBC (Mine is an australian TurboSmart), together with the Xede:
1. There are TWO restrictive pills on the stock EVO boost control (2003): one (#1) in the hose that goes from the Turbo's outlet to the in-line T-connector, and another pill (#2) that goes on the hose fitted between the T-connector and the Boost Control Solenoid.
2. You need to put *back in* (yes, make sure it is installed) pill #2. This is contrary to what originally Shiv designed the installation for, but there is a specific and functional purpose for this...
3. Install your MBC between the compressor's outlet port, and the T-Fitting. For these, you need to REMOVE the original hose, INCLUDING the pill #1. In place, you will put a new hose, and cut it so you install the MBC, with its output arrow pointing AWAY from the compressor outlet. You are set.
4. Now, the tuning approach changes completely. What you need to do now is to set the clicks on the MBC as high as you need to have 19psi to 20pis on red-line, but use the Xede to completely smooth-out the mid-rpm range non-linear boost levels that you will get (easily over 25 psi, if un-corrected).
This setup has the following key functional advantages:
a. It will *dramatically* change the "elasticity" or scale of the BCS actuators // valve effect. That is, your adjustments will no longer fall in the in 1%-5% ranges, but actually in the range of up to 30%!
b. You will give a new lease in life to the actual efficiency of the compressor, especially when traveling up to 7000 rpms. You won't change its blowing capacity, but you will be able to extract *more* between 6000-7000 rpms.
c. You will be able to make "global" adjustment to your boost curve (via external MBC) and, when needed, "local" adjustments with the Xede's powerful, high-resolution Boost map (say, that little peak at a given rpm range, which is impossible with the MBC alone).
As a result of the above example, my custom Boost map has now values that vary anywhere between 70% (especially in the 3000-4500 rpm range), all the way to 100% in the upper rpm range.
Furthermore, boosting up to 19-20 psi @ 7,000 is *perfectly*, *absolutely* possible with this setup. That you have timing and knock issues, well, that's another story, but you *can* and you *will* extract the juice of the 16G or any other turbo loaded on your car, as long as you use Xede and the stock Boost Control Solenoid.
As of today, the MBC classical spike in the 3000-3700 range is gone, and boost is held between 20-22 psi, all the way to redline (that means, 7000 rpm, barely falling below 20 psi).
I have been running on this setup for two (2) full years now, and, even if you remove the xede, all you need to do is bring your MBC back a few clicks and still have some boost, in case the Xede is gone.
Happy racing!
Therefore, here is the trick for making the best use of you MBC (Mine is an australian TurboSmart), together with the Xede:
1. There are TWO restrictive pills on the stock EVO boost control (2003): one (#1) in the hose that goes from the Turbo's outlet to the in-line T-connector, and another pill (#2) that goes on the hose fitted between the T-connector and the Boost Control Solenoid.
2. You need to put *back in* (yes, make sure it is installed) pill #2. This is contrary to what originally Shiv designed the installation for, but there is a specific and functional purpose for this...
3. Install your MBC between the compressor's outlet port, and the T-Fitting. For these, you need to REMOVE the original hose, INCLUDING the pill #1. In place, you will put a new hose, and cut it so you install the MBC, with its output arrow pointing AWAY from the compressor outlet. You are set.
4. Now, the tuning approach changes completely. What you need to do now is to set the clicks on the MBC as high as you need to have 19psi to 20pis on red-line, but use the Xede to completely smooth-out the mid-rpm range non-linear boost levels that you will get (easily over 25 psi, if un-corrected).
This setup has the following key functional advantages:
a. It will *dramatically* change the "elasticity" or scale of the BCS actuators // valve effect. That is, your adjustments will no longer fall in the in 1%-5% ranges, but actually in the range of up to 30%!
b. You will give a new lease in life to the actual efficiency of the compressor, especially when traveling up to 7000 rpms. You won't change its blowing capacity, but you will be able to extract *more* between 6000-7000 rpms.
c. You will be able to make "global" adjustment to your boost curve (via external MBC) and, when needed, "local" adjustments with the Xede's powerful, high-resolution Boost map (say, that little peak at a given rpm range, which is impossible with the MBC alone).
As a result of the above example, my custom Boost map has now values that vary anywhere between 70% (especially in the 3000-4500 rpm range), all the way to 100% in the upper rpm range.
Furthermore, boosting up to 19-20 psi @ 7,000 is *perfectly*, *absolutely* possible with this setup. That you have timing and knock issues, well, that's another story, but you *can* and you *will* extract the juice of the 16G or any other turbo loaded on your car, as long as you use Xede and the stock Boost Control Solenoid.
As of today, the MBC classical spike in the 3000-3700 range is gone, and boost is held between 20-22 psi, all the way to redline (that means, 7000 rpm, barely falling below 20 psi).
I have been running on this setup for two (2) full years now, and, even if you remove the xede, all you need to do is bring your MBC back a few clicks and still have some boost, in case the Xede is gone.
Happy racing!
Originally Posted by vulcan
...I always wanted to be able to have some sort of boost control, especially when the Xede was removed for maintenance or upgrade reasons.
Therefore, here is the trick for making the best use of you MBC (Mine is an australian TurboSmart), together with the Xede:
1. There are TWO restrictive pills on the stock EVO boost control (2003): one (#1) in the hose that goes from the Turbo's outlet to the in-line T-connector, and another pill (#2) that goes on the hose fitted between the T-connector and the Boost Control Solenoid.
2. You need to put *back in* (yes, make sure it is installed) pill #2. This is contrary to what originally Shiv designed the installation for, but there is a specific and functional purpose for this...
3. Install your MBC between the compressor's outlet port, and the T-Fitting. For these, you need to REMOVE the original hose, INCLUDING the pill #1. In place, you will put a new hose, and cut it so you install the MBC, with its output arrow pointing AWAY from the compressor outlet. You are set.
4. Now, the tuning approach changes completely. What you need to do now is to set the clicks on the MBC as high as you need to have 19psi to 20pis on red-line, but use the Xede to completely smooth-out the mid-rpm range non-linear boost levels that you will get (easily over 25 psi, if un-corrected).
This setup has the following key functional advantages:
a. It will *dramatically* change the "elasticity" or scale of the BCS actuators // valve effect. That is, your adjustments will no longer fall in the in 1%-5% ranges, but actually in the range of up to 30%!
b. You will give a new lease in life to the actual efficiency of the compressor, especially when traveling up to 7000 rpms. You won't change its blowing capacity, but you will be able to extract *more* between 6000-7000 rpms.
c. You will be able to make "global" adjustment to your boost curve (via external MBC) and, when needed, "local" adjustments with the Xede's powerful, high-resolution Boost map (say, that little peak at a given rpm range, which is impossible with the MBC alone).
As a result of the above example, my custom Boost map has now values that vary anywhere between 70% (especially in the 3000-4500 rpm range), all the way to 100% in the upper rpm range.
Furthermore, boosting up to 19-20 psi @ 7,000 is *perfectly*, *absolutely* possible with this setup. That you have timing and knock issues, well, that's another story, but you *can* and you *will* extract the juice of the 16G or any other turbo loaded on your car, as long as you use Xede and the stock Boost Control Solenoid.
As of today, the MBC classical spike in the 3000-3700 range is gone, and boost is held between 20-22 psi, all the way to redline (that means, 7000 rpm, barely falling below 20 psi).
I have been running on this setup for two (2) full years now, and, even if you remove the xede, all you need to do is bring your MBC back a few clicks and still have some boost, in case the Xede is gone.
Happy racing!
Therefore, here is the trick for making the best use of you MBC (Mine is an australian TurboSmart), together with the Xede:
1. There are TWO restrictive pills on the stock EVO boost control (2003): one (#1) in the hose that goes from the Turbo's outlet to the in-line T-connector, and another pill (#2) that goes on the hose fitted between the T-connector and the Boost Control Solenoid.
2. You need to put *back in* (yes, make sure it is installed) pill #2. This is contrary to what originally Shiv designed the installation for, but there is a specific and functional purpose for this...
3. Install your MBC between the compressor's outlet port, and the T-Fitting. For these, you need to REMOVE the original hose, INCLUDING the pill #1. In place, you will put a new hose, and cut it so you install the MBC, with its output arrow pointing AWAY from the compressor outlet. You are set.
4. Now, the tuning approach changes completely. What you need to do now is to set the clicks on the MBC as high as you need to have 19psi to 20pis on red-line, but use the Xede to completely smooth-out the mid-rpm range non-linear boost levels that you will get (easily over 25 psi, if un-corrected).
This setup has the following key functional advantages:
a. It will *dramatically* change the "elasticity" or scale of the BCS actuators // valve effect. That is, your adjustments will no longer fall in the in 1%-5% ranges, but actually in the range of up to 30%!
b. You will give a new lease in life to the actual efficiency of the compressor, especially when traveling up to 7000 rpms. You won't change its blowing capacity, but you will be able to extract *more* between 6000-7000 rpms.
c. You will be able to make "global" adjustment to your boost curve (via external MBC) and, when needed, "local" adjustments with the Xede's powerful, high-resolution Boost map (say, that little peak at a given rpm range, which is impossible with the MBC alone).
As a result of the above example, my custom Boost map has now values that vary anywhere between 70% (especially in the 3000-4500 rpm range), all the way to 100% in the upper rpm range.
Furthermore, boosting up to 19-20 psi @ 7,000 is *perfectly*, *absolutely* possible with this setup. That you have timing and knock issues, well, that's another story, but you *can* and you *will* extract the juice of the 16G or any other turbo loaded on your car, as long as you use Xede and the stock Boost Control Solenoid.
As of today, the MBC classical spike in the 3000-3700 range is gone, and boost is held between 20-22 psi, all the way to redline (that means, 7000 rpm, barely falling below 20 psi).
I have been running on this setup for two (2) full years now, and, even if you remove the xede, all you need to do is bring your MBC back a few clicks and still have some boost, in case the Xede is gone.
Happy racing!
sounds like a good idea, but how come no one else is going this route??
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 66
Likes: 10
From: FLORIDA
Well...
Originally Posted by 93civEJ1
sounds like a good idea, but how come no one else is going this route??
Very few folks imagined that, but today, is an colossal reality. You *do not* necesarily need followers to make something work, though
BTW, I just came back from re-tuning my boost maps with v3.0 firmware. I just upped the boost a bit on the MBC (16 clicks), decreased to 68.x% between 3500 and 4500, and gained almost an extra pund on the top
Happy racing!
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 66
Likes: 10
From: FLORIDA
These are the changes you need to perform...
Originally Posted by gashero
Vulcan can you take a look at this diagram and give me your opinion. This is the way i have it and now I have the Xede but don't want to loose my mbc.
For all comments, please, refer to your diagram:
1. You need two (2) new hoses, long enough to reach the right-hand side of the air box (looking from the front of the car, with the hood open. That's my reference)
2. Please, restore EVERYTHING back to stock setup, including boost pill between T and factory BCS.
3. Here come the changes:
a. The first new hose hooks to the Turbo nipple (leave its other end free).
Un-hook, *completely* the little stock hose that goes from this nipple to
the T-fitting. You will notice a pill inside (SAVE this little hose in a drawer,
for the future). Mark this hose with some visible sign or label, preferably
on the far-end, away from the nipple. ALSO, mark the freed port on the
T-fitting with some visual clue. We will need these clues later.
b. The second new hose hooks to the Wastegate actuator nipple (leave its
other end free). You will un-hook the existing llittle stock hose that goes
from wastegate nipple to the T-fitting. This little section will be re-used,
and you will notice that it *does not* have any pill inside.
c. At this point, there will be one-port of the T-fitting that will stay UNTOUCHED,
with a stock rubber hose (gray) attached, that goes from this T-fitting port to
the input ot the stock BCS. You *do not* need to do anything with this hose,
as it has another pill inside, and such pills HAS TO STAY, if you desire to have
your MBC untapping the performance of your stock BCS + XEDE boost control.
c. Bring the two new hoses forward, right hand side of the Airbox. Of course,
this requires dismantling most of your stock intake piping, as well as stock
box, etc., and putting them back together. But is *exactly* the same as you
would do during a convetional MBC install.
d. Attach the marked hose (from a) to the "input" port or nipple of the MBC.
e. Attach the little hose (from b) to the output port of the MBC.
f. Attach the remaining side of the little hose (from e) to the MARKED port of the
T-fitting.
g. Attach the remaining (unmarked) port of the T-fitting to the (unmarked) long
hose (from b).
c. CLOSE your MBC and tie-wrap it (with black tie) to one of the latches, on the
right hand side of the stock air box, so it stays vertical, firm and cold during
normal engine operation.
You are set, and ready to start tuning your map. You *will* need to open up, progressively, your MBC, according to the recommendations that I presented before this post.
Happy racing!
