Give us until the end of the week. Should have something for ya.

 

Hi All,

I wanted to give a little plug into this thread in support of the "Gerrard Spec." A few weeks ago I became the proud recipient of a set of Road & Track Ohlins for the EVO. Paul actually pointed me to them, and it was time to take the plunge. I really wanted to install them straight up and test them for a month (mostly street driving) before turning them over to Paul. Some life happened and I couldn't get them on so I'll be sending them back under Paul's care in a week or so.

In lieu of this life happening, Paul very kindly spent over an hour of his busy time (it IS in the middle of race season after all) to explain to me his perceptions of the EVO in general, suspension setups, and how suspension perception influences driving proweress.

Fellow EVOMers Paul is a very busy and driven gentleman. I consider that conversation probably one of THE luckest hours in my life. Paul is an engineer, chief driving instructor, university lecturer (and researcher), and a family man. One hour of his time and knowledge is worth well more than a couple full days of my time.

From what I gleaned from Paul here are some impressive comments / ideas he left with he:

(1) The EVO is a front wheel drive biased car. As such any setup on a suspension favors more of a front wheel bias.
(2) The EVO engineers put in an AWD system (rear drive) in order to help the front do its job better.
(3) The EVO engineers had to make certain compromises in order to optimise the platform layout relative to this FWD concept and put in certain suspension geometry features in the rear in order to help balance out the EVO.
(4) Paul and his crew have spent extensive time measuring and documenting, on probably the order of blueprinting, both the front and rear suspension movement, patterns, and how it relates to the EVO platform.
(5) Paul chose Ohlins because he could basically be an "engineer" on them and change them easily in order to get the best setup on the EVO. As Ohlins is having a hard time getting Road and Track shocks into the States (not to mention the parts support) Paul and his crew have chosen to still help the customer by working out another source and get a rebuildable / tunable suspension out.
(6) EVERY magazine, tester, or tuner that has driven a "Gerrard Spec" EVO has come away feeling that a "Gerrard Spec" EVO was the most balanced, and easiest to drive.
(7) Paul mentions that when he won first in class at the One Lap of America with the Ohlins setup, he had probably 75% of his suspension ideas figured out, and since then (as he owns an EVO himself) has spent many road and track hours completing that last 25%.
(8) Vishnu is here to support this setup and they do a very nice job of it. I have been working with Dustin and it has been an absolute joy. Yes Vishnu is busy, yes they are probably understaffed, but ultimately they do their absolute best in order to help the customer. Any weak link the EVO community has suffered from has been from Ohlins.

Some more of my personal opinions (probably not as factual):
(1) I can't get it out of my head that Paul sets up the EVO so that the REAR balances the FRONT and NOT the FRONT "dragging" the Rear about.
(2) The EVO does and can have a generous amount of oversteer on command avaliable in order to point the front properly through corner BUT the EVO suspension must be optimised such that the driver can CATCH the oversteer and PAUSE it, and then bring the oversteer back under control for optimal corner times. For myself as a very amateur driver, this oversteer must be so indentifiable and catchable that I don't end up spinning the car.
(3) This balanced oversteer idea is 'not' accomplished via a large anti-roll bar. It is accomplished by proper and precise setup via the rear suspension damping.

I'll be definately putting up a very detailed thread about my Ohlins "Gerrard" Spec. in the near future. Look for it soon.

Thanks for the time to let me rant.

Cheers,

~jcnel.

 

I realize Paul and Vishnu have put an incredible amount of time and effort into tuning the Ohlins into a superior product, but isn't it perhaps time to cut your losses and find another coilover manufacturer that can meet demand? Months continue to pass, and there's still no definite word on their availability. Moreover, there's a possibility that Ohlins has changed spec. I'd imagine Ohlins is costing you a fortune in lost business.

 

We have explored this option, and continue to. However, there are many problems with doing this. Either the shocks don't have the adjustablity we need, or the quality isn't there, or they simply can't meet supply that we demand. Trust us, we have done an increadible amount of work, without any return. We want to get these shocks to you guys as much as you want them.

 

..... ?

 

Could you be more specific?

 

Here's the bottom line that Ohlins R&T provides and makes them hard to pass up:

large adjustment range with fine increments
service-able and tune-able in the US
very robust and don't rust
don't lose significant damping over time
high-speed compression blow off (and rebound on Flag's)... think bump tuning
common internals with higher-end siblings... more options

I have personally tested (off the top of my head): Advance Design, full Bilstein line, KW-V3, DMS-50, Cusco Zero2R, Megan, Apex, KYB, Tokico, Koni, Tein, JRZ, Moton, Penske, and many Ohlins. Trust me, it's hard for most of these to meet *all* the above criteria. Many coilovers on the market you just throw out when they're done, depends what you want to spend your money on. I'm not jaded by name value, if someone makes a shock that is as good for that price, I'll promote it.

 

or simply can't meet the supply that we demand... seems to be a phrase that most reading this thread are paying attention to.

 

First, thanks for all the kind words I would like to take a moment to clarify a few things in your excellent summery

1. The EVO isn't a "front wheel drive biased car" it's a nose heavy car which makes it most similar in handling balance to a FWD car.

2. The EVO is AWD because of the WRC (plain and simple), of course the AWD greatly improves performance

3. Again like #1 I think the weight distribution is more of a key here. Over all the generations of the EVO three have refined the concept greatly. I drove an EVO IV in Japan years ago and that's when I became a believer and counted the days till the EVO came out in the US (mine is from the very first batch that hit the U.S.!). They have evolved the EVO to be better than it should be on paper, it reminds me of the most evolved sports car out there, the 911, a 997 is a ridiculously competent car (much like the EVO).

4. This part is right on but Joe (Djazair) deserves primary credit here.

5. True but it looks like Ohlins are back in supply (fingers crossed).

6. I have had a lot of well known racer (friends) try my car and to a man (Danica hasn't driven it yet ) rave about the balance and the street ride.

7. to support this point my car is over two seconds a lap quicker than it was with the "baseline" OLA set-up

8.

your own comments...

1. I would rather phrase it that we optimize front grip to add balance (not reducing rear grip to add balance)

2.

3.

I also want to again make sure everyone realizes the contribution Joe Henry brings to all this, he makes me and my car look good! And of course Vishnu for their support and steady supply of really smart customers (not kidding at all).

thanks,
Paul

 

Thanks for the heads up Paul,

1.) and 2.) Whoops, and correction noted. I think I really wanted to say what you said; but in rereading my own post, I ended up saying something totally different.

Thanks for the clarification(s).

I didn't know where/when to bring Joe in here.
Yet as I've worked with Joe, Joe deserves a heap amount of credit also! Kudos!

Cheers,

~j.

 

no worries at all, I was impressed with how much you did remember!

One other thing to add... can we pretty please just call them "Vishnu Spec Ohlins" it is their product after all . I appreciate the kudos, don't get me wrong(!), and I am very proud of them but it is a Vishnu product.

thanks once again guys,
Paul

 

Well the product is from Vishnu, but the specs are from Paul, so ... as my wife (filipina) would say: "Basta! 'Gerrard Spec Ohlins', nalang."

l8r)

 

Paul,

Regarding your comment about that EVO isn't a "front wheel drive biased car"...
But I cant help but notice that the location and arrangement of Evo's engine and transaxle are very similar to my friends' Honda far from my E36 BMW M3. Subies, I
BELIEVE, on the other hand have transaxle mounted behind the engine which is
close to the configuration of most RWDs. I guess, my question is that... what
makes a more "front wheel drive biased" car? I used to think that it's the location
and arrange of the engine & tranny and of course having both in the front makes
the car more nose heavy.

Thank you.

 

There is a difference between cars that are AWD, and AWD with a FWD bias. Take the VW R32 for example. That car uses a haladex clutch, which only sends power to the rear under wheel slippage. So during most driving conditions the car is basically a fwd car. The evo on the other hand does not act like this. It has a fixed bias.

 

nice one Dustin, you nailed it