Anther Stage 2 car on the dyno
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From: Danville/Blackhawk, California
Anther Stage 2 car on the dyno
Hi guys,
Thought I'd update the forum. Finally finished the installation of yet another Stage 2 kit on our own shop car. For those who don't know, our shop car has over 3500 dyno pulls on it and isn't exactly the strongest of EVOs. It's typically down about 10-15whp from less abused customer EVOs that get driven by normal people in normal conditions.
That said, I started dyno tuning it this afternoon. Only got 50 or so tuning runs in but the numbers are interesting. First of all, unlike the other Stage 2 car which made 390whp (on our dyno, or ~430-440whp on a Dynojet), our car is running 264/272 cam combo instead of 264/264. It's also running a smaller A/R on the exhaust housing. The hope was that the exhaust housing would improve boost response while whatever power loss up to would be offset with the bigger exhaust cam. Well, that's essentially what happened. Our weakling shop EVO is now making 380whp (on our dyno). Just a few ponies down from the other Stage 2 car. However, our car enjoys a 75-80whp power advantage between 4500 and 5800rpm which is quite nice, to say the least. Peak power is at 7200rpm. And all this is with 23psi of boost, about 2-3psi less than the other Stage 2 car. Our car is also running our own intercooler instead of the 3rd party aftermarket intercooler running on the other car.
On the road, the car is much more responsive than the first Stage 2 car. 1st gear sees a full 23psi and a complete loss of traction. 2nd gear sends the nose of the car up in the air. Real fun. Still a lot of power tuning to go. But so far so good.
Judging by these results, it would appear that the 272 exhaust cam is the way to go for those who don't mind a little lumpier idle. The 264 cam would appear to be a significant compromomise as far as max power and on-boost torque goes. I would have never expected the 272ex cam to make up for the smaller A/R housing and the historically weak motor but it did
More tuning/testing next week. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!
Cheers,
shiv
Thought I'd update the forum. Finally finished the installation of yet another Stage 2 kit on our own shop car. For those who don't know, our shop car has over 3500 dyno pulls on it and isn't exactly the strongest of EVOs. It's typically down about 10-15whp from less abused customer EVOs that get driven by normal people in normal conditions.
That said, I started dyno tuning it this afternoon. Only got 50 or so tuning runs in but the numbers are interesting. First of all, unlike the other Stage 2 car which made 390whp (on our dyno, or ~430-440whp on a Dynojet), our car is running 264/272 cam combo instead of 264/264. It's also running a smaller A/R on the exhaust housing. The hope was that the exhaust housing would improve boost response while whatever power loss up to would be offset with the bigger exhaust cam. Well, that's essentially what happened. Our weakling shop EVO is now making 380whp (on our dyno). Just a few ponies down from the other Stage 2 car. However, our car enjoys a 75-80whp power advantage between 4500 and 5800rpm which is quite nice, to say the least. Peak power is at 7200rpm. And all this is with 23psi of boost, about 2-3psi less than the other Stage 2 car. Our car is also running our own intercooler instead of the 3rd party aftermarket intercooler running on the other car.
On the road, the car is much more responsive than the first Stage 2 car. 1st gear sees a full 23psi and a complete loss of traction. 2nd gear sends the nose of the car up in the air. Real fun. Still a lot of power tuning to go. But so far so good.
Judging by these results, it would appear that the 272 exhaust cam is the way to go for those who don't mind a little lumpier idle. The 264 cam would appear to be a significant compromomise as far as max power and on-boost torque goes. I would have never expected the 272ex cam to make up for the smaller A/R housing and the historically weak motor but it did
More tuning/testing next week. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!
Cheers,
shiv
Shiv, can you post the dyno runs between the cars? It sounds a very interesting and a bit confusing. I'm still wondering about exhaust cam choices for my car on 91oct and the stock turbo. does the 272 hurt spool? if so how much and does the 272 has more mid-range and top end? Good stuff, keep up the good work!
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Originally posted by chronohunter
Shiv, can you post the dyno runs between the cars? It sounds a very interesting and a bit confusing. I'm still wondering about exhaust cam choices for my car on 91oct and the stock turbo. does the 272 hurt spool? if so how much and does the 272 has more mid-range and top end? Good stuff, keep up the good work!
Shiv, can you post the dyno runs between the cars? It sounds a very interesting and a bit confusing. I'm still wondering about exhaust cam choices for my car on 91oct and the stock turbo. does the 272 hurt spool? if so how much and does the 272 has more mid-range and top end? Good stuff, keep up the good work!
Last edited by Andre 3000; Nov 26, 2003 at 10:22 PM.
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From: Kennesaw Ga
I have the cams for my stage1+ and it's set to 0,0. Brett did tell me in the future they will be used because I did not want to waste the money on something that is not needed.
Originally posted by evil8
Did you adjust the adjusting the cam gears help or are they at 0,0?
Did you adjust the adjusting the cam gears help or are they at 0,0?
Originally posted by 2fast2Furious
I have the cams for my stage1+ and it's set to 0,0. Brett did tell me in the future they will be used because I did not want to waste the money on something that is not needed.
I have the cams for my stage1+ and it's set to 0,0. Brett did tell me in the future they will be used because I did not want to waste the money on something that is not needed.
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So the bigger ar gives a 75-80whp anvantage at high rpms (over the other stage 2) eventhough the other car has the bigger exhaust cam?? I didn't think the differnce would be nearly that big! I am just reading incorrectly? Usually switch ing from the .4x hoiusing to the .63 housing gives a nice jump in power but you usually gain too much from switching from the .63 to the .87. When you say smaller a/r do you man the .63 housing? Same turbine wheel?
I think Shiv is saying the smaller ar they used in conjunction with the 264/272 cams gave a 75-85whp advantage in the mid range.
From his peak numbers, it seems that the new small ar 264/272 combo provides better mid-range at a very small peak hp expense.
Could we see the two dyno plots against each other, just to see the power differences at various rpm points?
Mark
From his peak numbers, it seems that the new small ar 264/272 combo provides better mid-range at a very small peak hp expense.
Could we see the two dyno plots against each other, just to see the power differences at various rpm points?
Mark
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From: Danville/Blackhawk, California
Yep, KK is right. I expected my car, with the smaller turbine housing A/R to have more low end and mid range but roll over and play dead up top above 6000rpm. This wasn't the case at all by virtue of the bigger exhaust cam which gave back whatever top end I would have lost with the smaller A/R. The combination basically provided a win-win result over the first Stage 2 set-up which, admitted, wasn't built to the specs that we suggested to the customer. On the road, the driving experience in the new Stage 2 car is very good. I'm not done tuning yet. The car has barely had 2-3 hours on the dyno. Give me until mid to end next week (I'm going out of town for the next few days) and I'll post up a proper apples to apples dyno comparison comparing two fully tuned cars.
Cheers,
Shiv
Cheers,
Shiv
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From: Sarasota
Re: Anther Stage 2 car on the dyno
Originally posted by shiv@vishnu
Hi guys,
Thought I'd update the forum. Finally finished the installation of yet another Stage 2 kit on our own shop car. For those who don't know, our shop car has over 3500 dyno pulls on it and isn't exactly the strongest of EVOs. It's typically down about 10-15whp from less abused customer EVOs that get driven by normal people in normal conditions.
That said, I started dyno tuning it this afternoon. Only got 50 or so tuning runs in but the numbers are interesting. First of all, unlike the other Stage 2 car which made 390whp (on our dyno, or ~430-440whp on a Dynojet), our car is running 264/272 cam combo instead of 264/264. It's also running a smaller A/R on the exhaust housing. The hope was that the exhaust housing would improve boost response while whatever power loss up to would be offset with the bigger exhaust cam. Well, that's essentially what happened. Our weakling shop EVO is now making 380whp (on our dyno). Just a few ponies down from the other Stage 2 car. However, our car enjoys a 75-80whp power advantage between 4500 and 5800rpm which is quite nice, to say the least. Peak power is at 7200rpm. And all this is with 23psi of boost, about 2-3psi less than the other Stage 2 car. Our car is also running our own intercooler instead of the 3rd party aftermarket intercooler running on the other car.
On the road, the car is much more responsive than the first Stage 2 car. 1st gear sees a full 23psi and a complete loss of traction. 2nd gear sends the nose of the car up in the air. Real fun. Still a lot of power tuning to go. But so far so good.
Judging by these results, it would appear that the 272 exhaust cam is the way to go for those who don't mind a little lumpier idle. The 264 cam would appear to be a significant compromomise as far as max power and on-boost torque goes. I would have never expected the 272ex cam to make up for the smaller A/R housing and the historically weak motor but it did
More tuning/testing next week. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!
Cheers,
shiv
Hi guys,
Thought I'd update the forum. Finally finished the installation of yet another Stage 2 kit on our own shop car. For those who don't know, our shop car has over 3500 dyno pulls on it and isn't exactly the strongest of EVOs. It's typically down about 10-15whp from less abused customer EVOs that get driven by normal people in normal conditions.
That said, I started dyno tuning it this afternoon. Only got 50 or so tuning runs in but the numbers are interesting. First of all, unlike the other Stage 2 car which made 390whp (on our dyno, or ~430-440whp on a Dynojet), our car is running 264/272 cam combo instead of 264/264. It's also running a smaller A/R on the exhaust housing. The hope was that the exhaust housing would improve boost response while whatever power loss up to would be offset with the bigger exhaust cam. Well, that's essentially what happened. Our weakling shop EVO is now making 380whp (on our dyno). Just a few ponies down from the other Stage 2 car. However, our car enjoys a 75-80whp power advantage between 4500 and 5800rpm which is quite nice, to say the least. Peak power is at 7200rpm. And all this is with 23psi of boost, about 2-3psi less than the other Stage 2 car. Our car is also running our own intercooler instead of the 3rd party aftermarket intercooler running on the other car.
On the road, the car is much more responsive than the first Stage 2 car. 1st gear sees a full 23psi and a complete loss of traction. 2nd gear sends the nose of the car up in the air. Real fun. Still a lot of power tuning to go. But so far so good.
Judging by these results, it would appear that the 272 exhaust cam is the way to go for those who don't mind a little lumpier idle. The 264 cam would appear to be a significant compromomise as far as max power and on-boost torque goes. I would have never expected the 272ex cam to make up for the smaller A/R housing and the historically weak motor but it did
More tuning/testing next week. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!
Cheers,
shiv
I have my HKS 264-int/272-exh cams along with my ARP head studs sitting in front of me - ready for installation on Monday. 
Thanks to my bro Arkady, I'm enjoyin' the **** out of my new Xede w/ Sub 0 + dp map - car is s-i-l-k-y smoooooooooooth with a huge powerband. Going from a S-AFC tune - to an Xede... I appreciate it much more than the average bear.
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From: Sarasota
Originally posted by shiv@vishnu
Yep, KK is right. I expected my car, with the smaller turbine housing A/R to have more low end and mid range but roll over and play dead up top above 6000rpm. This wasn't the case at all by virtue of the bigger exhaust cam which gave back whatever top end I would have lost with the smaller A/R. The combination basically provided a win-win result over the first Stage 2 set-up which, admitted, wasn't built to the specs that we suggested to the customer. On the road, the driving experience in the new Stage 2 car is very good. I'm not done tuning yet. The car has barely had 2-3 hours on the dyno. Give me until mid to end next week (I'm going out of town for the next few days) and I'll post up a proper apples to apples dyno comparison comparing two fully tuned cars.
Cheers,
Shiv
Yep, KK is right. I expected my car, with the smaller turbine housing A/R to have more low end and mid range but roll over and play dead up top above 6000rpm. This wasn't the case at all by virtue of the bigger exhaust cam which gave back whatever top end I would have lost with the smaller A/R. The combination basically provided a win-win result over the first Stage 2 set-up which, admitted, wasn't built to the specs that we suggested to the customer. On the road, the driving experience in the new Stage 2 car is very good. I'm not done tuning yet. The car has barely had 2-3 hours on the dyno. Give me until mid to end next week (I'm going out of town for the next few days) and I'll post up a proper apples to apples dyno comparison comparing two fully tuned cars.
Cheers,
Shiv
It sounds like my 272-exh cam will help situation... since I running HKS dp, which is only 2.65" in diam and of course stock o2 housing. Definitely encouraging if true...
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From: NJ
wow, thats some great news! Keep up the great work shiv! I cant wait to be able to do an AWD burnout! Thats no joke!
Basically, your car with the cam and the smaller AR is making the same power as that customers stage 2, if you factor in the WHP loss for your car, since you've flogged the crap out of it on your dyno, and that gain in the mid range, DAMN! You'll definitely notice that in the seat of your pants, keep us posted!
John
Basically, your car with the cam and the smaller AR is making the same power as that customers stage 2, if you factor in the WHP loss for your car, since you've flogged the crap out of it on your dyno, and that gain in the mid range, DAMN! You'll definitely notice that in the seat of your pants, keep us posted!
John
Intercooler Design???
Shiv,
Can you tell us more about your intercooler design?
Does it use the stock piping? How many CFM's does it flow? Any cutting of the bumper, etc...? What is the pressure loss (I am assuming somewhere around 1 psi)? And anything else you can let us know?
James
Can you tell us more about your intercooler design?
Does it use the stock piping? How many CFM's does it flow? Any cutting of the bumper, etc...? What is the pressure loss (I am assuming somewhere around 1 psi)? And anything else you can let us know?
James