Maybe Casper Electronics does have a patent attorney?

Noize, Fox is coming out with a new series based on EvoM, narrarated by retired sheriff Jon Brunnell: "When Good Brand Loyalty Goes Bad."

 

LOL circle chase.

 

I think Mr. Buschur is a bit over-sensitive about his products being copied. A while back, there was a post where he accused RNR Racing for copying Buschur because they sold upper intercooler pipes and mini batteries.

I mean, come on. Its almost as though Buschur tries so hard to get his products out FIRST, despite the fact that they arent exclusively his, and despite the fact that the quality is a bit compromised, so that he can whine and complain about everyone is copying him.

In the case with RNR, there isn't anything particular unique about an intercooler pipe and a mini battery. There was absolutely no reason to be so accusatory.

 

They'd have to file for a patent first ... this whole debate is asinine and going nowhere. If this type of thing was really so unique and revolutionary, then whoever made the first one should have patented it. If they didn't (or if it got rejected), then why complain? ..and if, as a consumer, you don't like the way someone does business, then the simplest thing to do is to vote with your wallet...

l8r)

 

ShapeGSX, quit being a grudge vulture. You have a lot to contribute but never less than when you sit there perched in judgment over Vishnu.

 

Best post evAr.
He's super bright, helpful, and knows a great deal about these cars. This is the only forum I see him using his sniper scope, though, which sucks. I can't really make that accusation myself, however. I've said too many negative things about Al on here, but I'm trying to correct that.

 

Shape ,if we didn't have any reverse engineering going on there wouldn't be any ECU reflashes, no precious DSM-link, heck no IBM comptible PC's other than by big blue themselves!

Either way, reverse engineering is one thing; knowing how a product works and looking at one that is particularly effective and seeing what was done is just part of the business, which IMO, when you get down to it is just two people trying to see how badly they can get away with screwing each other over

 

I post where I see interesting stuff, and I also post when I think that information is incorrect. And rare times like this, I post when I just have something to say. I read this forum because the content is interesting to me.

I've even asked Buschur if he was copying Magnus's design or just buying his intake manifolds for the Evo from Magnus. He didn't reply to me, though. The design is identical, though, so I suspect he is buying them from Magnus. I think that was interesting, though, because Buschur has always used his own sheetmetal intake manifolds on DSMs, but went to Magnus for the Evo one. Maybe he just didn't have time to make one.Is that sitting perched in judgement over Buschur?

Either way, your judgement of me won't change anything, either. So I guess we will all continue to do it.

Baloney. I have corrected Buschur on a number of things, like a 16G being able to hold 26psi to redline. I think it was RMR that built a downpipe without a flex section, and I thought that was a bad idea. I also think the O2 eliminator downpipes that don't separate the wastegate from the turbine outlet are a horrible idea, too. I'm waiting for someone to bring it up.

Like I said, I happen to read this forum because the tech info is pretty damn good, and I don't mind adding a little bit. But I'll attempt to correct anyone if I think they are wrong. I end up being the wrong one a lot, but at least it is being discussed.

I work for a company that has been burned badly by reverse engineering. Probably worse than any other company. But it was done by the book. Still a pretty crappy thing to do.

In the end, I don't care if Vishnu puts 50 cents worth of parts on the Xede to get rid of a check engine light. Good for them. I just think that a little more tact could have been used to get the design for something that is pretty darn simple. Hell, even a google search would have yielded a perfectly good and free design without going after someone else's work. Hey, here's one now! http://www.zx2racing.com/images/scem.gif What do you know! It's an RC circuit. I typed "O2 sensor check engine light eliminator circuit" into google, and that popped up. It would have taken some work to ensure that it worked to trick the Evo ECU, of course. I'm sure that Vishnu will test it thoroughly, anyway.

But jeez, have a bit more tact than to ask for someone to send you a commercial device to do the same thing so you can copy it.

Is that sitting in judgement? Yeah, I guess it is. But for me, that seemed pretty clear cut. Put a little (VERY LITTLE!) effort in, or reverse engineer someone else's commercial product.

But it doesn't have to be that way. You can work hard and come out ahead without copying someone else. You are trying to justify screwing someone else over. When the hell did that become the in and RIGHT thing to do? Probably the 80s.

As for DSMLink, the guys who made DSMLink did reverse-engineer the DSM ECU. But they reverse-engineered it in order to add functionality to the existing code that nobody else was doing or trying to sell. Their reverse engineering wasn't taking business away from the original writer of the code, which was Mitsubishi. There is a bit of a difference there. And everyone who was going to use DSMLink would already have a legal copy of the code. I'm sure there are legal grey areas somewhere, though.

Incidentally, I know for a fact that Tom and Dave purposefully did NOT look at existing aftermarket chips like ones from Technomotive in order to reverse engineer the ECU code. And they could have! It would have just taken a quick compare of TMO and a stock ECU chip to find out how to make a stutterbox, or find out where the check engine light code was, or where the boost gauge code was, or where the rev limiter setting was, or where the fuel cut limit was. But they didn't do that. They did the work themselves over a number of YEARS! They wrote a disassembler and assembler. They figured out the instructions that were not in the uh...(undisclosed)...instruction set by toggling the damn check engine light to clock out certain addresses after they applied the unknown instruction to the address. They respected Todd Day of TMO and didn't want to copy him, despite the fact that they were duplicating some of his functionality. That is impressive. That is a whole lot of hard work. That, I respect.

Whoops, there I go judging again.

 

With all the good things the DSMlink can do, you think they'd hurry up and implement boost control. At that point, it could truly be an all in one box. That is a major shortcoming that is also shared with the Apex-i Power FC.

 

It isn't a big issue, but they are looking at it. Personally, I find open loop control to be pretty useless. But a good closed-loop control with MAP sensor feedback would be cool.

Personally, I'll just continue to run my Hallman until I finish my own closed loop electronic controller. Boost contol is a pretty finicky thing. You might think that the turbo doesn't have anything else in it, but it might actually be exhaust pressures that are blowing the wastegate door open, etc... And there are various ways of attempting to fix issues like that that a simple solution won't address.

DSMLink for 1G DSMs is coming out very soon, btw. That is what they are currently "hurrying up" on.

 

 

Thank you ShapeGSX. What this thread sorely needed was your respect rubric and it was apt of you to fill us in!

And now, Jessica Simpson!

 

FYI the guys that designed the XEDE had no problem coming up with the Mil elim before request was actually requested here. BTW we had quite a laugh at the little casper Thanks for all your interest and conclusions Shape we enjoy that as well

 

This gets my vote for best change of topic/thread hijak...




l8r)

 

after reading this thread several times i still don't see where vishnu is going to profit from this. apparently they are only trying to help us out.

vincent