salad dressing

 

There is a lot of exageration when we speak of Alcohol/methanol/water engine damage. I personally know and many other Evo members from Tucson know a guy name Trevor that has been running alcohol/water methanol/water for over 6 years and no issues. He reliably runs his Stealth R/T TT to work and he traps 138mph plus he runs 10.7 on the 1/4 mile.

To make matters more interesting, he runs the first generation of SMC with the old pump which requires Klotz mixing cherry oil to get the seals lubricated.

I know I diviated a little bit but I think the real damage is virtually non existent, we should look more into the benefits, typically any water/methanol/alcohol keeps your combustion chamber very clean and free of residual.

my .2c

Carlos

 

since Carlos brought the subject of clean combustion chamber, here are my spark plugs, one with water injection, one without.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/at...5&d=1136456201

the top of my pistons are bright and shinny....it was not possible to get a pic thru the spark plug hole

 

Don't put the stuff in the oil, put it into the intake.

 

I have not posted much here much but h20 injection will not ruin or shorten the life of an engine. I run it in ( 300ZX TT ) my 300ZX TT and have been using the it for a few years. My Z has 666rwhp and water injection is very important on a highly tuned / modded car for power and safety.

If you have a good kit ( I endorse the Snow Performance Kit ), the h20 injection will spray a 50/50 mix into the intake stream which will atomizize and cool the air. No water / methy will reach the piston / cylinder at all.

The benefits will alter the burn characteristics of the fuel. Pump fuel will burn like race fuel. It also has a cleansing affect on the engine ( carbon deposits etc ).

I personally would not run a high boost turbo charged car without H20 injection

 

great info, which spark plug was from water injection the cleaner one?

 

the one on the right is with water

 

I just tore my 15k mile 2.4 engine down. It has been run all its life on 93/alky. The cylinder bores look like chrome. Barely any hash marks. I have stock engines in the garage with 200k on them and the bores still have the original hash marks. I dont use oil in my meth. If you do you will get upper cylinder lubrication. I dont use oil because alkycontrol advices not to with their pumps. I was also changing my oil in the car every 6-700 miles and I feel that was not often enough. Did the cylinders have bad ring seal? NO. 4% leakdown on all four. No catch can. 33psi on 35r daily. 560WHP. No blowby at all. One breather hose left to dangle on top of the tranny. No oil drip.

Anyone who says there is no accelerated cylinder wear fom using meth is just passing bad knowledge. Its definatley there. Rings do not ride on the cylinder wall. they ride on a film of oil. How else could they last 200k miles? remove that precious oil film and the bores wear much faster. If you dont believe me maybe you will believe GM tests. They where going to offer the grand nationals from the factory with alky injection. But long term tests showed accessive cylinder bore wear.

 

If you use the right nozzles to atomize the water / methyl mixture -- what you are saying will not happen. I am assuming that we are not talking straight methly either. If a mixture is used with nozzles to make it a fine spray pattern into the intake stream, there are no detrimental affects to the motor.

 

The nozzles were seeing 200+ psi. Thats a net pressure of 166+. You wont get better atomization. And I spray directly after the intercooler. I also did not run the car rich like most here do. The car loved lean air/fuel ratios. 12.8 at peak boost and 13.2 at redline. just because you ran your car for three years without issue does that mean there isn't any accelerated wear? I have seen the bores of 100s of engines. I know what bores are suppossed to look like.

 

The wear that you are noticing is from running lean. I never tuned my Z leaner because of water injection. I just ran more boost after finding the detonation limit on a dyno.

All cars will make more power on a leaner mixture. I never ran my Z or recommend a turbo charged car on pump gas leaner than 11:5:1 a/f. With water injection ( assuming that you leave the ignition timing the same), you can run addition boost safely without detonation.

On race gas, I would not recommend anything leaner than 12:5:1 on a turbo car.

 

No room for error!!! Imagine your pump goes bad!

 

Oil comes from the crankcase. So leaner mixtures are easier on the cylinders. All normally asperated cars are run at 12.5-13.5 for best power. Do they all experience fast wear engines?? Of course not. Richer mixtures wash the oil away not leaner ones. I know running lean like I did was not normal or advised. But I was running low compression pistons and it just plain liked it lean. I ran it as lean as 13.7-14.0 without detonation. AEM log tuned. backed by clean plugs. Car picked up 50whp going from 11.4 to 12.8 a/f.

 

If you are talking about a NA car ... I don't think your logic applies to a turbo car ... I have a ton of dyno tuning experience and real world experience here ...

 

I have been playing with turbo cars for 25years. The first one I built used water injection. The new direct injection turbo cars are running high compression and turbo. 9.7-10.5 compression ratios from the MINI, VW, Mazda. The direct injection allows A/F ratios as lean as 60/1. I guess by your theories these engines will be wearing out real fast.

The reason alky washes the cylinder clean is two fold. One the alky even when properly atomized still collects on the walls of everything it touches. Much like rain drops on your windshield at highway speed. The drops slowly creep up your windsheild at 5mph when the air passing over it is 70mph. Static friction keeps the fluid attatched to the surface. This is also why fuel injectors are placed as close as possibble to the combustion chamber. Un atomised alky collects on all the surfaces leading to the chamber and then its dumped into the chamber and it washes the cylinder walls clean. The second reason is the oil gets diluted real fast from alky. Diluted oil doeasn't coat the cylinder with oil like its suppossed to. The alky thats in the oil is not anywhere near the lubricant straight oil is.

When spraying alky and you lift the throttle fast and come to a halt, You will notice very rich a/f for 10-30 seconds at idle. This is the alky that is on the intake walls that is being reintroduced into the air flow.