Pls help me finalize my decision
Thread Starter
Evolved Member
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 689
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento, CA
Pls help me finalize my decision
I've been fascinated by WI on my evo 8 since talking with Works about their water injection kit in 03-04. Now, I'm finally planning on getting WI for my car. I've looked the most carefully at the aquamist and snow performance systems. Ultimately I'm planning on getting the snow performance system because although there are theoretical advantages to the aquamist system like the PWM valve vs PWM pump, the snow performance system is cheaper, simpler and seems to work just as well.
So... for those of you running meth/h20 and using the above systems, am I making a mistake in choosing the Snow Performance system?
So... for those of you running meth/h20 and using the above systems, am I making a mistake in choosing the Snow Performance system?
Thread Starter
Evolved Member
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 689
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento, CA
Failsafe - not all failsafes are failsafe. Pumps fail either by dying suddenly OR loosing pump pressure over time. In the 1st case, any failsafe with a minimum flow failsafe trigger will work. In the latter case, pump pressure drops-injection flow rate drops over time...not good if you run a 15gph - too late when failsafe triggers
Atomization - PWM pump speed systems vary flowrate by varying line pressure by varying pump speed. To get good atomization, you need the system to be at high pressure all time
http://www.hagonozzles.com/documents...M%20&%20MW.pdf
check out the pressure vs. mist size. A 10% increase in mist diameter = a 40% increase in mist weight. For the mist to efficiently traverse thru the maze of intake piping - it needs to be as small/light as possible
Reaction speed - injecting the right amount of injectant at the right time, look at the fuel injection system in the car. PWM pump speed system will have a hard time achieving this due to the massive rotor. Your AFR will be crazy in every gear except the one you are tuned in.
http://media.putfile.com/lag-20-33
Atomization - PWM pump speed systems vary flowrate by varying line pressure by varying pump speed. To get good atomization, you need the system to be at high pressure all time
http://www.hagonozzles.com/documents...M%20&%20MW.pdf
check out the pressure vs. mist size. A 10% increase in mist diameter = a 40% increase in mist weight. For the mist to efficiently traverse thru the maze of intake piping - it needs to be as small/light as possible
Reaction speed - injecting the right amount of injectant at the right time, look at the fuel injection system in the car. PWM pump speed system will have a hard time achieving this due to the massive rotor. Your AFR will be crazy in every gear except the one you are tuned in.
http://media.putfile.com/lag-20-33
Last edited by SlowCar; Feb 27, 2007 at 07:36 AM. Reason: add link
i just got my car up and running, now its tuning time with the new setup but i will be posting up the reaction speed, and such...the snow performance is a great kit, super reliable, safe and a best bang for your buck...i have dd my evo for almost 2 years now with meth injection everyday 65+ gallons through it, plus nitrous and nitromethane occasionally and its still going strong...
Failsafe - not all failsafes are failsafe. Pumps fail either by dying suddenly OR loosing pump pressure over time. In the 1st case, any failsafe with a minimum flow failsafe trigger will work. In the latter case, pump pressure drops-injection flow rate drops over time...not good if you run a 15gph - too late when failsafe triggers
Atomization - PWM pump speed systems vary flowrate by varying line pressure by varying pump speed. To get good atomization, you need the system to be at high pressure all time
Atomization - PWM pump speed systems vary flowrate by varying line pressure by varying pump speed. To get good atomization, you need the system to be at high pressure all time
Using your chart below a M15 nozzle at 40 psi has 9.49 GPH. That same nozzle for you to be at 15 GPH you need to change the pressure to 100 PSI. Push 40 PSI through a nozzle using a PWM pump system or 40 PSI through a PWM valve system and you get the exact same flow rate and the exact same atomization.
http://www.hagonozzles.com/documents...M%20&%20MW.pdf
check out the pressure vs. mist size. A 10% increase in mist diameter = a 40% increase in mist weight. For the mist to efficiently traverse thru the maze of intake piping - it needs to be as small/light as possible
There are other failsafes on the market and others soon to be released.
Your only argument is reaction time and PWM pump systems do react fast enough for MOST people.
Last edited by coolingmist; Feb 27, 2007 at 09:54 AM.
Trending Topics
Take a look at our vari-cool system. The line WILL be pressurized, however the pump will be at a stop (this is true with just about all progressive kits). from the time the system is given power the pump will spin and the injector will spray.
from the naked eye if you were to look at both side by side you may not notice any difference, but the valve system is going to be faster. If you have an aggressive tune and want your controller mapped to the fuel system or RPM, you may feel a need to go to a faster valve, but again, I can guarantee you will get great results with a Progressive style system in the circumstance as well.
Between Snow Performance or Aquamist, I would choose Snow Performance hands down.
David
How do you think PWM valves change the flow rate? If you have a nozzle that is X amount of flow at X PSI, the only way to change that flow is to lower the pressure or raise it. While the pump stays at full pressure with a PWM Valve kit, the Nozzle will only be at full pressure at 100% duty cycle of the valve. In order to lower the flow rate you must send less current to the valve, this results in less flow, less pressure at the nozzle. In otherwords, its identical to PWM PUMP in regards to how it atomizes and lowers/raises the flow rate.
Using your chart below a M15 nozzle at 40 psi has 9.49 GPH. That same nozzle for you to be at 15 GPH you need to change the pressure to 100 PSI. Push 40 PSI through a nozzle using a PWM pump system or 40 PSI through a PWM valve system and you get the exact same flow rate and the exact same atomization.
http://www.hagonozzles.com/documents...M%20&%20MW.pdf
Yes, but that has nothing to do with this argument. 40 psi through a nozzle whether its through a PWM pump or PWM valve does the same thing.
There are other failsafes on the market and others soon to be released.
Your only argument is reaction time and PWM pump systems do react fast enough for MOST people.
Using your chart below a M15 nozzle at 40 psi has 9.49 GPH. That same nozzle for you to be at 15 GPH you need to change the pressure to 100 PSI. Push 40 PSI through a nozzle using a PWM pump system or 40 PSI through a PWM valve system and you get the exact same flow rate and the exact same atomization.
http://www.hagonozzles.com/documents...M%20&%20MW.pdf
Yes, but that has nothing to do with this argument. 40 psi through a nozzle whether its through a PWM pump or PWM valve does the same thing.
There are other failsafes on the market and others soon to be released.
Your only argument is reaction time and PWM pump systems do react fast enough for MOST people.
I dont care whos system, the only way to change the flow rate through a nozzle is with pressure. whether you are opening/closing a valve, sending current, pulsing, it doesn't matter. You will notice I did not mention aquamist, im speaking about atomization. In the end, at some point the pressure after the valve has to change to affect flow.. Thats the point Im making. do you dis-agree with that statement?
Last edited by coolingmist; Feb 27, 2007 at 11:08 AM.
for example, our upcoming S-HSV (Super High Speed Valve) will be able to go from 0 flow to full flow back to zero in less than 4 ms. Think of the line being pressurized and the valve being able to open that fast.
Take a look at our vari-cool system. The line WILL be pressurized, however the pump will be at a stop (this is true with just about all progressive kits). from the time the system is given power the pump will spin and the injector will spray.
from the naked eye if you were to look at both side by side you may not notice any difference, but the valve system is going to be faster. If you have an aggressive tune and want your controller mapped to the fuel system or RPM, you may feel a need to go to a faster valve, but again, I can guarantee you will get great results with a Progressive style system in the circumstance as well.
Between Snow Performance or Aquamist, I would choose Snow Performance hands down.
David
Take a look at our vari-cool system. The line WILL be pressurized, however the pump will be at a stop (this is true with just about all progressive kits). from the time the system is given power the pump will spin and the injector will spray.
from the naked eye if you were to look at both side by side you may not notice any difference, but the valve system is going to be faster. If you have an aggressive tune and want your controller mapped to the fuel system or RPM, you may feel a need to go to a faster valve, but again, I can guarantee you will get great results with a Progressive style system in the circumstance as well.
Between Snow Performance or Aquamist, I would choose Snow Performance hands down.
David
4ms....thats slow! the aquamist hsv.....does it quicker
there is enough info on this water injection forum for the poster to make his own decision
btw do a bit more R&D and real world testing on YOUR own car on your s-shv before releasing it - stop using your customers as guinea pigs / beta testers like you have done always.
