+1


I'm running m10 + m15 and have found best results 12.4-12.5 afr across the board.


With only the m15 i was running 11.5 across the board for best results.


Cheers!

 

Some interesting point.

What fuel injectors and nozzles were you running on both the H2O and 100% meth setups?

So when you found the max boost with H2O did you try and up the jet size before you went to 100% meth?

When you mention adding water to a turbo maxed out on meth would kill power, would you not need to up the timing to account for the slower burn rate caused by the addition of water to the mix? And also would you not want to go up on the injection rate to keep the same overall a mount of meth when adding water to the mix?

My inital plan was to tune on straight water @ about 12.5% water:fuel with an afr target of high 11's low 12's then double the flow rate to 25% and move to 50/50 and retune, keeping the afr as close to 12:1 as possible.

 

50/50 denatured alky

 

1 m15 running 100% meth a/f 12 +-2 I will post some dynos soon with 100% water 50/ 50 mix and 100 meth same boost timing and a/f to see the diffs.
Cheers.

 

Interesting, I would assume that with just the m15 you had to run richer to keep the cylinder temps down and by adding the m10 you gave yourself enough in cylinder cooling to lean the mixture out some more. Good stuff.

 

oNly reason I would run 50/50 is neutralize to methanol and make it non volatile(not flammable, or easily flammable) If 100% leaks and lands on something hot then you just may be in for a show. Very rarely happens, just inspect your kit and you don't have to worry about that.

I use a 625ml/min nozzle w/ a back up 175ml in my cold side licp. I have a switch to activate or de-activate the secondary pump/nozzle.

What 94AWDcoupe said is pretty spot on. I saw a vid AL made by just running 100% water, he was actually surprised that it made less power without tuning it. Duh?

Water will lean the mix, 50/50 gives you safety and the 100% meth is where babies are made.

 

I am a big fan of 50% meth because its cheaper then 100% and you can make nearly the same power on a stock turbo if tuned properly...I tried all different mixtures on my evo at the track and netted nearly the same mph each time...all within a mph or two...I also liked that I could use the 50% on my windshield when needed since I used the stock washer tank...and yea tuning the afr's you gain quite a bit...when I would change concentrations the car would be in the high 9s low 10s typical if I went from 50 to 100% and the car would trap around 108-109 and would go right up to 115-117 once the afr's were cleaned up...

 

^ weren't u using a mix of nitromethane and nitrous at the same time? wouldn't that sku the power results from the 100%meth/ 50/50....

 

You really need to test injection quantities before you quote the nozzle size you are running. I recently tested a 10m jet on my blue car that I assumed was around 1000cc like everyone quotes. But these progressive controllers do not always ramp the voltage like you think they are. The tested amount static was 560cc. It would have been less into boosted pipes but that is hard to test. I left out where a 50/50 mix would be good. I thought you could figure out that if small amounts like 300-400cc is best on water and large amounts 1200cc + is best on 100%meth then a medium amount 500-800cc is gonna work great with 50/50. The bottom line is water works great up to a certain percent. Then it kills power. It doesnt add MBT at all compared to fuel. It does wonders for controlling detonation but it is not a fuel.

Statements like "I went record breaking fast on 50/50 mix" and "I found my car to gain 20hp going from 11.5-12.00 a/f " can be very misleading to those trying to find answers here.

I think OK1X car is using a 7m jet. He may be injecting as little as 400cc. AND he is injecting on top of 20$ a gallon race gas. 100% water or 100% meth would likely work the same in his setup.

Ulimatecc. I have spoke with you on the phone. you where injecting 350cc when you tried 100% and 50/50 mixes in your car. You upped the jet to 650cc right before selling the car. You didnt do much testing with the medium volume.

You also must keep in mind that water and meth do different things to the engines timing needs. My yellow car a few years ago made about 40 more HP on 100% meth. leaning from 11.5-12.5. I made the wrong conclusion at the time that leaner mixture work best. Car used to wake up really. But that was because the timing was too low for the 11.5 mix. I later found another 40 hp at 10.8-1 and more timing. Meth makes most power at 4.5-1a/f. when using a WB scaled for pump fuel and you start injecting meth you ideal a/f will get lower and lower the more you inject. If you inject small amount your ideal a/f may be around 12.5/1. But at higher amounts like 1000cc your new ideal a/f is going to head toward 11.0 or lower. More meth there is in the mix the more timing you will need. Meth burns far slower than fuel so more timing will need to be added.

1 degree of timing can make 25hp. It can very easy to throw the timing needs off when you start injecting water or meth.

Injecting water is quite different. Its sole benefit is to control detonation by absorbing heat. So tuning with water will always lead to the ideal a/f being closest to 12.5-13.5. You wont ever here of anyone making good power on water injection at 10.5 a/f. You dont need that much cylinder cooling. Timing needs change when injecting water but its more complicated than when injecting meth. With meth the more you inject the more timing you need. With water its the fuel in the chamber that dictates what the timing needs will be.

here is the tool I use to test injection on map based cars. you can set turn on points and check flow volume with it. Just turn ignition on and pump compressed air at controlled pressure into your map sensor.


The best answer to this question is. Experiment with YOUR setup and find what works best.

 

Gapped at 0.024 and 29psi boost, AFR around mid 12's, about 40% is about all it can handle before breaking up

 

I only used the combos towards the end of my motors demise haha...

 

94awdcoupe, I agree with this statement. Your post is very good for referencing specifics. Good job.
Quote:
Injecting water is quite different. Its sole benefit is to control detonation by absorbing heat. So tuning with water will always lead to the ideal a/f being closest to 12.5-13.5. You wont ever here of anyone making good power on water injection at 10.5 a/f. You dont need that much cylinder cooling. Timing needs change when injecting water but its more complicated than when injecting meth. With meth the more you inject the more timing you need. With water its the fuel in the chamber that dictates what the timing needs will be.

 

good stuff 94AWDcoupe

 

so basically your car had an overdose

 

100% is the way to go.

Once you introduce distilled water you will have to lean it out and advance timing beyond what is required at the 100% tune.

Whether using meth or alchy it doesn't really matter but go the 100% route for sure.