obviously dsm's and mitsu's have always run stupid rich but you probably made the problem even worse by going with the flashed tune. most flash tunes blindly add in more timing and cover it with a ton more fuel. bad combo.

i've almost always seen a gain on any other near stock forced induction car that i've ever done a water/meth install on.

looks like my experience is just the opposite of yours. so who's right?

 

My stock tune was very rich on my Evo and my tuner leaned out my A/F ratio and had to pull some timing back in places to live happily with our wonderful 91 octane here in Los Angeles. Then adding water/alcohol to the equation didn't help. Don't know what to say anymore. Will just let the OP take what ever advice he wants and maybe he can report back with some results. Maybe Evan Smith or Richard from Aquamist can chime in on this also.

 

Your tuner couldn't get any more power out of your car when you added water/alcohol? Thats weird! Did you try water/meth ?

 

Is this without adding more boost?

Due to the rich AFRs from the factory adding another 30% of fuel from 50/50 injection your deflagration is significantly reduced so no additional power will be gained per-say. (Stock evo's knock from the factory on 91 so if any gain stock will be the equivalent to switching to 93)

All this is dumb why would you put a injection kit on your car and not tune it? This is the same as saying, adding 110 octane race gas will gain power from not doing anything but just adding it to the tank. It wont maybe 1-2 whp but its a waste unless you tune it and turn up the boost and timing (increasing deflagration)

OP please do yourself a favor and retune with it!!! You wouldn't put a 35R on your car and only hope to make 3 more whp, you would do everything right to get the most out of your setup. Don't go cheap and don't sell you or your car short to save time or a dime. Sacrifice being faster than the next guy and save up for the right stuff.


Good Luck

Evan Smith

 

You misread my post. The debate with 1fastevo99 was how I feel that water/alcohol doesn't really make a difference on a "untuned " engine for water/alcohol injection and I was referencing to my flash that was tuned for "91 octane only". Hell yes I made power when I was tuned for water/alcohol injection on 91 octane.

 

Oh oops I got you now sorry

 

No problem.

 

No power gain, per se? Eh I'm willing to bet that you haven't tried it on a stock-ish car yet. I don't know where you live but while it's still winter time go take a stock-ish car out and drive it aggressively on a cold night and then in six months do the same aggressive driving on a hot day. I think you already know the results of my suggested test without even having to think about finding a stock Evo. So what you're trying to tell me is that significantly cooler IATs and an increased detonation threshold should not make more power on a stock car? I think my little test would prove otherwise. Hooray for modern technology giving us adaptive fuel and ignition control!

Your 30% more fuel claim is a bit of a stretch. In my experience, the total volume injected usually isn't much more than 25% of your fuel flow rate and that's on a high boost application. Lower boost doesn't require as much flow so you're injecting maybe 10-20%... and that's total volume. With a 50/50 mix only half the fluid is actually fuel. So you're realistically talking about 5-10% more fuel, not 30%. Do the math. If you think 5-10% more fuel is too much then just reduce the concentration of methanol.

If you're only seeing 1-2 whp on a stock car then you're doing something wrong. I bet dollars-to-cheeseburgers that a stock car could make 5% more power with water/meth and you'd see probably close to 10% more power just by upping the boost and using water/meth. But like I keep saying, if you want the most power possible then yes absolutely go re-tune but this isn't to say that you will not make power without re-tuning. .

OP, do yourself a favor and do what works best for you. Some of the forum super tuners out there will do everything in their power to brain wash you into thinking you need the most expensive thing available because it absolutely has to be the best thing if it's so expensive, right? You're rockin' a status car so you've got to go with the status baller injection system too. I've seen simple on/off injection systems make the same exact power, if not more, as some of the more high end systems out there and still have acceptable driveability. People get stuck in this rediculous 'gotta pay to play' BS when you'll make just as much power going the less expensive route.

Sorry for the rant. God bless America and untuned expensive cars.

 

No? What do you think my first mod was to my 2nd evo? Aquamist 2D! I have had now over 4 Aquamist kits on 3 different cars of my own for the past 7 years! I live in Tucson AZ one of the driest and hottest places in USA not to mention we have the worst 91 octane just like CA. We here stand to have the most gains from any forum of injection even more than you in CA.



I have tested it numerous times. Thermal dynamics show deflagration is decreased with the addition of water dramatically, so much so it will LOOSE whp. With the added fuel from methanol you increase the octane rating but also the CO level taking your 14% burnable oxygen down to a level around 11% or 12%! Less Oxygen means less power! The only gain is from the octane and the reality is it’s not a gain at all since it only allows the car to perform at its peak level from the factory.

Factory evo’s on 91 knock around 7 counts on winter nights! In Japan they are tuned closer to a 96 octane level so if the Evo is rated to 283 whp it gets to the states and put in 91 it instantly looses power do to poor fuel and a lacking tune. Adding injection of any forum does and will not increase power above that of a factory tune period! With no additional timing nor boost you will receive no significant difference. It will only allow the evo to run to its full factory tuned level. Also note Evo’s depending on motor build ect. ect. will differ in factory power upto 20 whp



Oh really are you sure about that? I have 10 + evo’s running a 50/50 mix with two 1.0MM jets on stock injectors. That’s over a 49% W2F ratio! (@ Peak IDC)


Yes it is progressive and not that much at all times but no stretch. Trust me I know what works and what doesn’t. I currently run more than 800CC of 100% H20 with no issues! Please quit lecturing me on how to do this properly. I am a Full Line distributer of Aquamist after all.



Then break out the McDonalds because I’m hungry. Sure the lower IC temps will help but no more than a cold day could do. If it helps cool but think about it a intake only adds 4-8 whp lol that’s hardly worth $100.00 + . A injection kit around $900 TUNED +150 whp worth it! A injection kit $900 UNTUNED +10-15 whp might as well as get the dam intake! Most likely 1-2 whp though especially since very little places are as dry and hot as here in the USA.

Any power to be made will not be of any huge benefit. Price per dollar will be completely wasted. Just a tune without the injection would be worth more on a stock car and more power will be made safer. There are so many factors; cars, climates, mods, ect. ect. but all this info provided I assume being a evo forum is implied for such cars and mods.



It’s those same cheap kits that end up posting problems that make injections systems look faulty and give the mod a bad reputation for reliability and a quality standard. I’m all about budgeting but NOT at the sacrifice of 1. Reliability 2. Quality! If cost is a concern find a different cheaper car, SRT4’s are really cheap now Power should not be the OP number 1 concern.

For the record drivability and power from any other kits on the market has never once come close to that of Aquamist! That’s a personal but proved many time opinion. Sure others out there are good theory’s and ideas but have yet to impress me like Aquamist.

You do gotta “pay to play” you didn’t get your Evo for free, nor does any evo deserve to be cheated with cheap parts because the owner wants to be Ricky Bobby and go fast! If that’s the mentality of the current Evo owners then I am disappointed. I sure hope Surgeons and Air Plane manufactures don’t get these same mentalities as we would start to have a lot of accidents.

Save up and do things right or you just want to sell the car when you start having issue with parts failing not fitting I have seen this a million times. Ask David Buschur I know he’s fed up with cheap copy parts failing consistently and beating a dead horse proving his point on this forum.

Evan Smith

 

party.

 

Evan is awesome just tells it like it is. Lots of experience and knowledge in Tucson Az thanks to Evan.