NS@AEM

Based on your results it looks like your pump might be a lower pressure variant. Assuming there is some allowable error in your measuring method, a 10 GPH nozzle should flow about twice as much as a 5 GPH nozzle at the same pressure. Based on the Hago nozzle flow data that I've seen the nozzles are rated at 100 psi. A 5 GPH nozzle should flow about 315 cc/min and a 10 GPH at the same pressure should flow 630 cc/min.

According to the flow rates you measured it seems like this pump is making just under 100 psi of pressure with the smallest nozzle. I think if you decide to use a Hago type nozzle you might consider using a pump with more pressure.

Yes, it does. I think it's physically fundamental that an opposing force will lower your net pressure regardless of the pump design.

Richard L

iTrader: (5)

Yes, it is a great pump, if everyone can afford to buy our kit with this pump. I would like to have a bit more pressure than 100psi (designed and recommended), something in the order of 150-160psi. I am sure it can do it with a fair degree of reliability still.

At present, we are using a pump made by aquatec. They recommended us to operate the pump below 180psi , so we set it to 160psi. Since our system (PWM valve) does not require high pressure to extend the dynamic range, so why take undue risk? At 160psi the pump runs cool (I^2T) and very happy.

So far we have a couple of them failed, it leaked like a fountain. Not sure the reason but will be examined by Aquarec and will have the result in in the near future. I cannot tell you how many aqautec pumps we have used, but two is insignificant in comparison to those still in service.

The reason for us to change over from shurflo to aquatec because it rhymed with aquamist better. The other reason is their seal design seemed to be more suitable to methanol - I won't know that for certain for another few more months. Until then I will not say either way.

NS@AEM

I took a quick look at all of our water/methanol injection warranty claims for the pump itself and was surprised with what I found. For the many thousands of injection kits we've shipped since 2007 there was been a reported failure rate of less than 1%. To put it another way, for every 1000 pumps shipped less than 3 are coming back as being defective.

I don't know how long you've been using the Aquatec pump but for the many years you used the Shurflo I'm willing to bet your warranty claims weren't much different than ours are now. I'm also willing to bet that failures like the OP mentioned are from unappropriately sped'd pumps that were used beyond their intended use (higher pressure, high methanol concentration, etc.)

I'm not knocking the Aquatec pump at all. It's definitely a nice unit with a great design. It's just that the Shurflo pump has worked out every well for AEM so we haven't seen the need to change.

coolingmist

iTrader: (1)

our shurflo pumps were specd to use 100% meth. also, we never had customers adjust those past the 150 psi set point.

while we did get seal problems with the shurflo, most of the problems were the pump just not turning on, the electrical no longer working, the plastic housing cracking when the customer screwed in the fittings, etc. Shurflo also did not really care much about retaining customers. They did not even give us a warranty, so we had to eat any pump failures. With the 1000s of pumps we ordered every year you would think they would care a little more. Shurflos attitude was " you are not going to find a pump anywhere near this price, so we dont have to work to keep you".

I will say this, with what was said above shurflo always came through. While they messed up shipments quite a bit, ran out of parts to build pumps even though releases were made a year in advance, etc. they always were able to get the product to us and were nice to deal with. Sometimes I wish it was possible to merge the maturity and professionalism of Shurflo with the youth and design of Aquatec. Oh well...cant have everything.

Having said that, I am 100% confident as we have been this for almost 7 years now that the aquatech pump is a better pump. When I said we had far less claims on the Aquatec pump, its true. Its only been a year since we started carrying them so time will tell better. In all the years we carried the shurflo, I dont think we had more than 300 or so shurflo pumps returned to us so it was a small number.

shaman

iTrader: (2)

Aquatec suggests not taking their pumps over 180 psi?

coolingmist

iTrader: (1)

Aquatec recommends 200 PSI max pressure. Infact, the Aquatec pump is pre-set at 200, except for those mfgs that request it to be set lower. they do not recommend > 200 psi pressures. We recommend to our customers to keep it at 200 psi unless they need more pressure and flow. We do not recommend to exceed 250 psi.


CM

94AWDcoupe

iTrader: (125)

You guys touting these shurflow/auqatech pumps as reliable are making me want to throw up. I have twelve or so dead pumps in my garage and non of them were returned for warranty. So quoting your return rates as how reliable they are is not working for me at all.. reread my first two paragraphs because it is 100% correct. the plastic pump heads swell and warp using methanol. they are a poor choice at best for designing a reliable meth kit. You guys chiming in with your reliability quotes are not winning any points with me. the pumps suck. anything you say to convince me otherwise is BS talk.

I used meth injection for about ten years. One thing I learned after many toasted engines is there is no reliable pump designed to pump methanol. The sureflow transfer pumps are a joke at best. I had first pump last me about 1.5 years. And about a dozen pumps fail at 3-6 month intervals. Failing pump during a drag race if not using a failsafe results in blown engines. Not good.

pretty much all the meth kit makers are using this same surflow pump. AEM, FJO, alkycontrol, cooling mist, auquamist, devils own. etc. etc. These pumps are a poor design at best. the pump heads are made of plastics and various type seals that swell over time. These pumps are affordale and everyone has dollar signs in their sites selling them.


More on this pump this thread is about. Yes this pump does not pump more than 100psi. It makes about 110psi with the jet blocked. The 15GPH jet is the largest i would consider using with this pump lowers the psi to around 75psi. I am far more concerned with reliability than I am pump pressure and atomization. I test spray the jets i am using into the sunlight and you cant tell by eye any difference in droplet size from 10-100psi at the jet. I am comfortable with 40psi just like fuel injectors are run at. so if i run 35 psi I only need 75 psi at jet. these jets are mounted at 90 degrees to intercooler pipe on most everyones kit. Have you ever looked at spray pattern mounted in the pipe? Huge drips form instantly when the spray hits intercooler pipe mounted just 2.25 inches from tip of jet. Droplet size simply not important in meth kits. The only real advantage of running high psi is to get more volume from jet without having to go to larger jet size.

The design of a meth kit only needs two things in my opinion form using water injection since late 70s. A consistent injection rate and a consistent injection rate. using a pump that starts to leak at 3-6 months is far from that. i want a pump that is going to be fuss free for life a car. pretty much like the fuel pump in your tank. would car manufactures put a fuel pump in your car that starts to fail at 3-6 months? The guy i bought this pump from has used one pump for the last ten years. thats the type of feedback i am looking for. feedback from end user not selling kits.

This micro pump is 980$ retail. The shurflow pumps are 60$ retail. That pretty much clears it up for me.

94AWDcoupe

iTrader: (125)

Another point i like to make a about spraying meth. I like to keep the kit as simple as possible. The fewer components there are the better. These auqamist kits are made of quality materials but their design is way over the top complicated. Two thumbs up for the new plug-n-play style kits HSF=2/3 . AT least install got easier. There is no need for PWM flow on meth kit. It is needed when injecting precise amounts of water but when injecting meth at 500+ cc you only need the 500cc at wide open throttle. and a way to inject less during spool up. ramping pump speed with electronics is a poor way to do that but it works. This micro pump does that through its 0-5v input. Since the pump it gear driven positive displacement. Its going to be wonderfully precise during spool up phase.

The hago jets are best design i have seen. They are designed to operate clog free. The aqumist jets have always scared me. They just have tiny orifices in and out. I much prefer the more reliable and cheap hago jets. They work very well for the job.

Richard L

iTrader: (5)

I wonder if you can do a little experiment for me with your pump, it will also help you to know how a positive displacement pump works through a nozzle.

Take a measurement of flow on a nozzle (any, say 10GPH) for one minute:

0v = no flow cc/min
1V = ?
2V = ?
3V = ?
4V = ?
5V = 515cc/min (done previously)

Richard

Richard L

iTrader: (5)

Yes, that is what they told me when pressed. The president and his chief engineer.

Lets put this is perspective, if you are weighing 180 pound standing on top of a 1" sqaure rod. The bottom end of the pole is pushed against the plastic pumphead. This is how stress the pump is enduring.

Luckily the industry is full of misleading statements. Let me explain...

A 200psi pump doesn't mean it is actually operating at 200psi, nor does a 250psi pump. It just means the by-pass valve is set to 200psi under the dead-head conditions from the factory.

As soon as you open up the pump to spraying nozzle, the pressure will drop instantly. By how much will depending on the size of the nozzle.

Why do these PPS system company claim those high pressures? As you know the PPS based system market is very crowded. In order to impress their potential customers, they play this numbers game. It is completely meaningless.

coolingmist

iTrader: (1)

94,

I am sorry its not been your experience for reliability. Most of us companies would be out of business if we did not have the reliability. Depending on where you bought your pumps, they may not have been compatible with methanol. any of the off the shelf pumps would not be. Shurflo had two materials that I am aware of for pump heads, Poly and Nylon. Both are compatible with methanol and should not warp. If you consider that the hose used is nylon and it does not warp due to it. Poly was the standard pump head for the shurflo, we had ours changed to Nylon and I have never seen a pump head warp.

I agree the pumps are far from perfect , particularly the shurflo pumps. I think the Aquatec pumps are a step in the right direction. We have to take into affect affordability, reliability and pricing as well as performance.

I know the number of pumps we have sold over the years and I know the reliability rate and its not the same as your experience.


CM

tephra

iTrader: (6)

980 vs 60... well theres your problem

I would rather a system that incorporates a failsafe (like Aquamist) at a reasonable price, rather than a pump that might be 10% better at 200% the cost...

94AWDcoupe

iTrader: (125)

There is a very reputable member on here using an aquamist kit. he is on his third pump in two years. You wont find one post from him on any of his pump failures.And he is an avid poster on his stock block 10.3 performance. I am local to alkycontrol and have seen their shop first hand. I have seen how they mod their pumps from start to finish. I have seen all the trays of parts soaking in alky to see how they hold up. I've got calls form TTP on the pump subject on whether there is a more reliable pump being sold. He has himself also experienced the unacceptable short pump life.

Then there is the importance of a failsafe. There are no failsafes on your factory fuel system. why do you need one on your meth kit? and why are all the manufactures and sellers adamant about designing their kits with a good fail safe. failure rate of these pumps is high. get over it.

I paid 95 for these pumps and they include a 150$+ variable control. I think they are a great deal for what they are. Forgive me for wanting a factory like reliable alky kit that doesnt need a failsafe.

TTP Engineering

iTrader: (465)

I am not happy with Shurflo reliability, fitting options and have found the Aquatec 5800 pumps to be a great upgrade to the Shurflo units. I don't recall seeing any 5800's fail as of yet. On RyuEvoIX's car we upgraded his pump to the 5800 Aquatec pump and do not believe he has had any more issues.

The next deficiency in the system is the connectors which with compression fittings now available from us, there is no longer any chance of methanol leaks at the fittings.

tephra

iTrader: (6)

Well maybe the stock fuel setup should include failsafe...

YOU have to remember, that for what mitsubishi designed the car and the ORIGINAL tune that came on the car, a failing fuel setup wont really cause major major problems...

When you tune the **** out of it, then it becomes a problem... So your operating out of the designed spec...

Same with alky, your not going to put alky on a stock car with a stock tune are you...

Not saying the pumps are great or anything, I havn't had any experience with it, but failsafe is in place to protect me