Socal raid, did any evo's get busted here
There is a large gap between two subgroups of enthusiasts. Being very general in my description, there are those who would be featured in Grassroots Motorsports and then the other portion who would likely be featured in some sort of Import Tuner magazine.
Sounds like they are guilty of loitering, exhibition of speed and modifying of SMOG related parts. These are all infractions of law and thus illegal.
Here is where the gentleman details his experience at one of these meeting points:
http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?op...185#msg7325185
And no, these "busts" were not about lowering the crime rate, it was about generating revenue. Period. And no, making a spectacle of yourself is not a crime, but if you're blatantly guilty of breaking laws, making a spectacle of yourself will get you noticed by law enforcement. You should honestly re-read my post and think outside of the box. There are two sides to every situation. If you were to familiarize yourself with capitalism, investment returns, revenue generation, and how and why these laws are forced, I think you would better understand how these kids got noticed and why they got busted. Your entire post was regarding a violation of constitutional rights, but they were actually blatantly breaking local law and due to carelessness, they got busted on a very, very large scale.
Sounds like they are guilty of loitering, exhibition of speed and modifying of SMOG related parts. These are all infractions of law and thus illegal.
Here is where the gentleman details his experience at one of these meeting points:
http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?op...185#msg7325185
And no, these "busts" were not about lowering the crime rate, it was about generating revenue. Period. And no, making a spectacle of yourself is not a crime, but if you're blatantly guilty of breaking laws, making a spectacle of yourself will get you noticed by law enforcement. You should honestly re-read my post and think outside of the box. There are two sides to every situation. If you were to familiarize yourself with capitalism, investment returns, revenue generation, and how and why these laws are forced, I think you would better understand how these kids got noticed and why they got busted. Your entire post was regarding a violation of constitutional rights, but they were actually blatantly breaking local law and due to carelessness, they got busted on a very, very large scale.
I don't need to familiarize myself with the concepts of capitalism in this case. Not only am I already aware of how it works, but law enforcement is not funded by capitalism. Its funded by our taxes. To apply a capitalistic mindset to something like law enforcement suggests to me that they are in it to generate revenue - a both scary and disgusting thought. The citations and fines they collect are a biproduct of the service they provide to the public in recouping some of their costs, NOT to make money. That makes your local law enforcement a business by your logic. Businesses exist to make money. If law enforcement existed to do the same, this country would be a damn scary place. Furthermore, There is no way in hell that they recouped the half a million dollars this operation ended up costing in the first place. So, by the logic that has been applied with regards to revenue generation, a gross failure.
If they were "blatantly" guilty as you suggest, a bust would not have been necessary. They would have been pulled over and thrown in jail many times before and their licenses revoked. I don't need to read about someone else's perspective of what those meets are all about, I've been to a few myself. I grew up in a family where my dad was president of the porsche club. There were never donuts in the parking lots, littering, or "blatant" law breaking. How this is much different except for the quality of vehicles they used is beyond me. The one stupid and HUGE difference between this group and an older more well established group is that they didn't choose a venue reserved by, and for themselves. That does not mean that the grounds for warrantless search and seizure were there. If you or I had been there shopping, we would have been detained just for having the spoiler on our evo's. Thats pretty lame if you ask me. We shouldn't have to prove that we are not breaking the law. Loitering is not a cause for search and seizure, neither is anything else mentioned in that article.
I'm all for law breakers to be treated as such, but we have to abide by our own laws in identifying them, or the whole system becomes broken. I am under the impression we will not see eye to eye on this one so I'll be leaving this thread. I appreciate your input but I simply do not agree. These were, and continue to be public resources which could have been better focused.
Last edited by boozeup&riot; Apr 6, 2008 at 08:08 PM.
damn, im a cop and im telling you now those comments in the article if accurate which generally they aren't bcuz its media guys then thats complete and utter crap. because you mod you car your a street racer... wow i guess im a street racer to.... what about people who track and do hpde's and run at the drag strip... this is just stupid and a waste of money for the dept because im telling you right now if i was down in california and at this meet i would be suing the dept's involved for profiling.
it wasnt a waste of money, as somebody said earlier, it made them a ton of money in tickets. The reason they targeted the import crowd is because they're a lot easier to bust than some drug dealer or axe murderer. The criminals know they're breaking the law and run from the cops, The unsuspecting modder doesnt expect anything. For the police department its like shooting fish in a barrel.
I kinda feel the same way about your comments - law enforcement isn't a business. People shouldn't have to prove they are innocent, and there is no way this thing recoup'ed the half a million dollars. I've been in a situation where I've had to go to court, and pay a bunch of money on a lawyer for being in the wrong place at the wrong time before. Getting caught up in these nets that they cast is no fun at all. FWIW my no common sense lawyer used the same arguments regarding search and seizure as the grounds to get it dismissed. Again - we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Last edited by boozeup&riot; Apr 7, 2008 at 07:56 AM.
it wasnt a waste of money, as somebody said earlier, it made them a ton of money in tickets. The reason they targeted the import crowd is because they're a lot easier to bust than some drug dealer or axe murderer. The criminals know they're breaking the law and run from the cops, The unsuspecting modder doesnt expect anything. For the police department its like shooting fish in a barrel.
Last edited by boozeup&riot; Apr 7, 2008 at 07:50 AM.
This is not the first time this has happened in SoCal. and will not be the last. It's happened here in SD a couple times in the last few years, and is the main reason I don't attend these meets.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 145
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From: Mount Juliet, TN
You still choose to define enthusiasts as you see fit, I'll take what the dictionary has to offer. I see no difference between the two groups you point out as enthusiasts - I don't read either magazine. Anyone who hasn't read either and read your comparison may also agree - your definition of "enthusiast" is subjective at best. Does one who prefers one magazine over another prove themselves to be the "real enthusiast?"
I don't need to familiarize myself with the concepts of capitalism in this case. Not only am I already aware of how it works, but law enforcement is not funded by capitalism. Its funded by our taxes. To apply a capitalistic mindset to something like law enforcement suggests to me that they are in it to generate revenue - a both scary and disgusting thought. The citations and fines they collect are a biproduct of the service they provide to the public in recouping some of their costs, NOT to make money. That makes your local law enforcement a business by your logic. Businesses exist to make money. If law enforcement existed to do the same, this country would be a damn scary place. Furthermore, There is no way in hell that they recouped the half a million dollars this operation ended up costing in the first place. So, by the logic that has been applied with regards to revenue generation, a gross failure.
If they were "blatantly" guilty as you suggest, a bust would not have been necessary. They would have been pulled over and thrown in jail many times before and their licenses revoked. I don't need to read about someone else's perspective of what those meets are all about, I've been to a few myself. I grew up in a family where my dad was president of the porsche club. There were never donuts in the parking lots, littering, or "blatant" law breaking. How this is much different except for the quality of vehicles they used is beyond me. The one stupid and HUGE difference between this group and an older more well established group is that they didn't choose a venue reserved by, and for themselves. That does not mean that the grounds for warrantless search and seizure were there. If you or I had been there shopping, we would have been detained just for having the spoiler on our evo's. Thats pretty lame if you ask me. We shouldn't have to prove that we are not breaking the law. Loitering is not a cause for search and seizure, neither is anything else mentioned in that article.
I'm all for law breakers to be treated as such, but we have to abide by our own laws in identifying them, or the whole system becomes broken. I am under the impression we will not see eye to eye on this one so I'll be leaving this thread. I appreciate your input but I simply do not agree. These were, and continue to be public resources which could have been better focused.
I don't need to familiarize myself with the concepts of capitalism in this case. Not only am I already aware of how it works, but law enforcement is not funded by capitalism. Its funded by our taxes. To apply a capitalistic mindset to something like law enforcement suggests to me that they are in it to generate revenue - a both scary and disgusting thought. The citations and fines they collect are a biproduct of the service they provide to the public in recouping some of their costs, NOT to make money. That makes your local law enforcement a business by your logic. Businesses exist to make money. If law enforcement existed to do the same, this country would be a damn scary place. Furthermore, There is no way in hell that they recouped the half a million dollars this operation ended up costing in the first place. So, by the logic that has been applied with regards to revenue generation, a gross failure.
If they were "blatantly" guilty as you suggest, a bust would not have been necessary. They would have been pulled over and thrown in jail many times before and their licenses revoked. I don't need to read about someone else's perspective of what those meets are all about, I've been to a few myself. I grew up in a family where my dad was president of the porsche club. There were never donuts in the parking lots, littering, or "blatant" law breaking. How this is much different except for the quality of vehicles they used is beyond me. The one stupid and HUGE difference between this group and an older more well established group is that they didn't choose a venue reserved by, and for themselves. That does not mean that the grounds for warrantless search and seizure were there. If you or I had been there shopping, we would have been detained just for having the spoiler on our evo's. Thats pretty lame if you ask me. We shouldn't have to prove that we are not breaking the law. Loitering is not a cause for search and seizure, neither is anything else mentioned in that article.
I'm all for law breakers to be treated as such, but we have to abide by our own laws in identifying them, or the whole system becomes broken. I am under the impression we will not see eye to eye on this one so I'll be leaving this thread. I appreciate your input but I simply do not agree. These were, and continue to be public resources which could have been better focused.
Are you reading the same article that everyone else did?
The cops aren't going to sit there and dissect us into little sub-groups or try to figure out who is an "enthusiast" and who is a "street racer". They don't have time to do that and more importantly, they don't care. Let's do a little "cop math", if you will:
Number of cars(modifications) x tickets(fine) = Money for the department
Wake up and smell the coffee, chief. Maybe in your own little utopian society cops are there to provide a selfless public service, get cats out of trees and fight the bad guys, but back here in Realityland the police is a business just like Microsoft or Yahoo. If you think the police rely solely on tax money to pay their bills, you are sadly misinformed.
Another thing to consider is the age factor. In general it's assumed that a younger person with a fast car is a "street racer", but older folks (like myself - I'm 34, by the way) would instantly be categorized as "enthusiasts" likely because it is assumed we would know better than to do silly stuff like burnouts and such and draw attention to ourselves. It's a gross stereotype, but like it or not that is how it is perceived.
The policeman on the scene does, to a degree, have to interpret the law to enforce it. As they are human, they WILL be subjective in their interpretation; until we get Robocop out on the street, you'll just have to put up with Deputy Dipsh*t for now. It's up to the court to be objective and impartial to either side.
So back to the roundup. You got a bunch of modified cars gathered together, no permit to hold a public gathering, with likely no permission from the lot owner to be there, milling about talking about who knows what. Ever heard of probable cause?
In case you haven't, read up, sonny. http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/p089.htm
Before we
maybe we should all look at this from both sides of the issue. If the situation was reversed and the cops were getting the short end of the stick, you wouldn't think anything of it, would you? Be honest with yourself, kid.
Evolved Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,145
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From: North NJ ---> ATL
here is the link. I know Kali sucks I guess if you one of our cars. It sucks everywhere. anyways here is the link.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/23/2302.asp
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/23/2302.asp
that is such a waste of time/money/resources, its not even funny....
i fuggin hate cops.... power-abusing bastards... fawk them all
how is this legal? even if there were "illegal" mods, or modded cars
1. that doesn't mean that they are street racing or preparing to street race
2. how in the hell does that get to having a car crushed?
i am glad i don't live in the communist country of california...
since illegal search, seisure, and confiscation seems to be the norm there
1. that doesn't mean that they are street racing or preparing to street race
2. how in the hell does that get to having a car crushed?
i am glad i don't live in the communist country of california...
since illegal search, seisure, and confiscation seems to be the norm there
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: San Diego, CA
Actually, Alan, I disagree. I've put probably a total of 70k miles on 'illegally' modified cars out here in San Diego and have never gotten pulled over for any of it. On my Galant, I've passed by cops and have had them pull up behind me at lights many times with HKS 272s loping, leaded gas spewing out, and a 3" exhaust with no cat and a relatively small muffler. How did I do it? It's all about blending in. I had a stock looking tip, I drove the speed limit at appropriate times, I had no gauges on my a-pillar, and I didn't have a BOV that sounded like a squashed bird. It's all about how you present yourself. If you stick out like a sore thumb, expect to get noticed.
Actually, Alan, I disagree. I've put probably a total of 70k miles on 'illegally' modified cars out here in San Diego and have never gotten pulled over for any of it. On my Galant, I've passed by cops and have had them pull up behind me at lights many times with HKS 272s loping, leaded gas spewing out, and a 3" exhaust with no cat and a relatively small muffler. How did I do it? It's all about blending in. I had a stock looking tip, I drove the speed limit at appropriate times, I had no gauges on my a-pillar, and I didn't have a BOV that sounded like a squashed bird. It's all about how you present yourself. If you stick out like a sore thumb, expect to get noticed.
