Diagnosis fee for vehicle under warranty???
Jan 27, 2015, 01:40 PM
#16
If they do 4 hours of work, they get paid for those four hours of diagnostics. The techs are compensated the same as well.
No one should be paying a diagnostic fee when they have a warranty.
Now if you are talking about damage and abuse then that is a different subject.
Glad it worked out.
No one should be paying a diagnostic fee when they have a warranty.
Now if you are talking about damage and abuse then that is a different subject.
Glad it worked out.
Fast forward - scenario 1. Issue is warranty related. Work is done, fee is waived.
scenario 2. Issue is not warranty related. Customer could say oh nevermind. I'll fix that problem myself, or take it to another mechanic for cheaper labor. Say it took one hour to diagnose. $80/hour for labor would be out the door if the customer said thanks for telling me what's wrong, I'll take my car back now. The dealership, the mechanic, still needs to be compensated for troubleshooting an issue.
Within reason, a diagnosis fee makes sense. Any diagnosis fee is waived, assuming that the issue comes back as being covered under warranty, as the OP was told.
Jan 27, 2015, 02:00 PM
#17
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Correct. If someone brings their car in with an issue to be diagnosed, the dealer says "we'll look at it for $100. If it is a warranty issue, that fee is waived."
Fast forward - scenario 1. Issue is warranty related. Work is done, fee is waived.
scenario 2. Issue is not warranty related. Customer could say oh nevermind. I'll fix that problem myself, or take it to another mechanic for cheaper labor. Say it took one hour to diagnose. $80/hour for labor would be out the door if the customer said thanks for telling me what's wrong, I'll take my car back now. The dealership, the mechanic, still needs to be compensated for troubleshooting an issue.
Within reason, a diagnosis fee makes sense. Any diagnosis fee is waived, assuming that the issue comes back as being covered under warranty, as the OP was told.
Fast forward - scenario 1. Issue is warranty related. Work is done, fee is waived.
scenario 2. Issue is not warranty related. Customer could say oh nevermind. I'll fix that problem myself, or take it to another mechanic for cheaper labor. Say it took one hour to diagnose. $80/hour for labor would be out the door if the customer said thanks for telling me what's wrong, I'll take my car back now. The dealership, the mechanic, still needs to be compensated for troubleshooting an issue.
Within reason, a diagnosis fee makes sense. Any diagnosis fee is waived, assuming that the issue comes back as being covered under warranty, as the OP was told.
Even if the issue is not warranty, if you have the repair performed, the diagnosis fee is typically waived since they will now be charging you the hours to do the repair.
Diagnosis fees only exist for your "scenario 2", so that the dealer doesn't spend all day diag'ing cars and losing their *** because people find out what it is and fix it themselves.
Jan 27, 2015, 03:26 PM
#18
Correct. If someone brings their car in with an issue to be diagnosed, the dealer says "we'll look at it for $100. If it is a warranty issue, that fee is waived."
Fast forward - scenario 1. Issue is warranty related. Work is done, fee is waived.
scenario 2. Issue is not warranty related. Customer could say oh nevermind. I'll fix that problem myself, or take it to another mechanic for cheaper labor. Say it took one hour to diagnose. $80/hour for labor would be out the door if the customer said thanks for telling me what's wrong, I'll take my car back now. The dealership, the mechanic, still needs to be compensated for troubleshooting an issue.
Within reason, a diagnosis fee makes sense. Any diagnosis fee is waived, assuming that the issue comes back as being covered under warranty, as the OP was told.
Fast forward - scenario 1. Issue is warranty related. Work is done, fee is waived.
scenario 2. Issue is not warranty related. Customer could say oh nevermind. I'll fix that problem myself, or take it to another mechanic for cheaper labor. Say it took one hour to diagnose. $80/hour for labor would be out the door if the customer said thanks for telling me what's wrong, I'll take my car back now. The dealership, the mechanic, still needs to be compensated for troubleshooting an issue.
Within reason, a diagnosis fee makes sense. Any diagnosis fee is waived, assuming that the issue comes back as being covered under warranty, as the OP was told.
I'm not trying to be a dick or argumentative here, but again that is incorrect.
I cannot count the number of times I have taken a vehicle in for something minor (radio button issues,windows not rolling up or down all the way, uneven tire wear, etc) and decided to not leave my vehicle to be fixed by the same dealer. You have a bumper to bumper warranty for a reason. I can pull up at any Mitsu service drive in this country with an issue that I feel is a problem and even if the dealer does not find anything, I will not be charged a diagnostic unless there are extenuating circumstances like I listed above. If I hear sounds I shouldn't be hearing, the dealer is going to have a look free of charge to me, and then they bill Mitsu, it's that simple.
Techs get their money from the dealer, the dealer gets their money from Mitsu. No one is going hungry here.
I'm sure there have been a few dealers run some tricks here and there, but you can trust what I am telling you.
Jan 27, 2015, 03:27 PM
#19
Even if the issue is not warranty, if you have the repair performed, the diagnosis fee is typically waived since they will now be charging you the hours to do the repair.
Diagnosis fees only exist for your "scenario 2", so that the dealer doesn't spend all day diag'ing cars and losing their *** because people find out what it is and fix it themselves.
Diagnosis fees only exist for your "scenario 2", so that the dealer doesn't spend all day diag'ing cars and losing their *** because people find out what it is and fix it themselves.
Jan 28, 2015, 05:04 AM
#20
I'm not trying to be a dick or argumentative here, but again that is incorrect.
Unless you are talking about aftermarket mods and obvious signs of abuse then this is flat out wrong if you are under bumper to bumper warranty.
I cannot count the number of times I have taken a vehicle in for something minor (radio button issues,windows not rolling up or down all the way, uneven tire wear, etc) and decided to not leave my vehicle to be fixed by the same dealer. You have a bumper to bumper warranty for a reason. I can pull up at any Mitsu service drive in this country with an issue that I feel is a problem and even if the dealer does not find anything, I will not be charged a diagnostic unless there are extenuating circumstances like I listed above. If I hear sounds I shouldn't be hearing, the dealer is going to have a look free of charge to me, and then they bill Mitsu, it's that simple.
Techs get their money from the dealer, the dealer gets their money from Mitsu. No one is going hungry here.
I'm sure there have been a few dealers run some tricks here and there, but you can trust what I am telling you.
Unless you are talking about aftermarket mods and obvious signs of abuse then this is flat out wrong if you are under bumper to bumper warranty.
I cannot count the number of times I have taken a vehicle in for something minor (radio button issues,windows not rolling up or down all the way, uneven tire wear, etc) and decided to not leave my vehicle to be fixed by the same dealer. You have a bumper to bumper warranty for a reason. I can pull up at any Mitsu service drive in this country with an issue that I feel is a problem and even if the dealer does not find anything, I will not be charged a diagnostic unless there are extenuating circumstances like I listed above. If I hear sounds I shouldn't be hearing, the dealer is going to have a look free of charge to me, and then they bill Mitsu, it's that simple.
Techs get their money from the dealer, the dealer gets their money from Mitsu. No one is going hungry here.
I'm sure there have been a few dealers run some tricks here and there, but you can trust what I am telling you.
And letsgetthisdone is correct. Diagnostic fees are generally waived. They are also generally charged, even for cars under a bumper to bumper warranty. Not that I'm saying your prior experience has been wrong, but my own, the OP's original experience, plus a quick Google finding of millions of other people says that dealers do charge initial diagnostic fees. Right or wrong of them.
Jan 28, 2015, 11:38 AM
#21
Unfortunately, by my own as well as the OP's original experience, your world isn't the one we all live in. Literally millions of people go to dealerships, with cars under "bumper to bumper" warranties, and are charged initial diagnostic fees which are then subsequently waived.
I think you and the millions need to do a little better job reading on what your bumper to bumper warranties cover
All BS aside, I did some searching trying to find "millions" of examples of this and most of what I found were 3rd party/extended warranties that were trying to get out of paying initial diagnostics, which I can completely get. Their stipulations are often different.
New car warranty is something else entirely, and I could not find any scans or paperwork of diagnostic charges for initial customer concerns.
I've been involved with dealerships personally and professionally all my life (many different brands) and not one of them has ever had a charge on my paperwork, waived or otherwise while under new car warranty. I would never sign a work order for my brand new vehicle that included a diagnostic charge, that is flat out crazy. Like I said though, if you abused or modded your car that is not what we are talking about.
I am hoping you guys just found a few dealers that are not doing things the way they should and people don't realize what is going on.
Jan 28, 2015, 11:57 AM
#22
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It wasn't clear in my statement, but if you have a full "bumper to bumper" warranty, there should not be a diagnosis fee, ever.
They may make you sign something for a diag fee, but it will always be waived if you have a warranty. They make you sign so that if they get in their, and the problem becomes an insurance issue (rodent chewed up wiring), car was clearly crashed/ran over a curb, they can then charge the diag fee.
If they find nothing, deem the "issue/noise" "normal", or the issue requires a warranty covered repair, the customer does not get charged the diag fee. If a non-warranty covered repair is performed, the customer does not get charged diag. If a non-warranty repair is needed, and the customer declines, then (and only then) they are charged the diag fee.
They may make you sign something for a diag fee, but it will always be waived if you have a warranty. They make you sign so that if they get in their, and the problem becomes an insurance issue (rodent chewed up wiring), car was clearly crashed/ran over a curb, they can then charge the diag fee.
If they find nothing, deem the "issue/noise" "normal", or the issue requires a warranty covered repair, the customer does not get charged the diag fee. If a non-warranty covered repair is performed, the customer does not get charged diag. If a non-warranty repair is needed, and the customer declines, then (and only then) they are charged the diag fee.
Jan 28, 2015, 12:17 PM
#23
It wasn't clear in my statement, but if you have a full "bumper to bumper" warranty, there should not be a diagnosis fee, ever.
They may make you sign something for a diag fee, but it will always be waived if you have a warranty. They make you sign so that if they get in their, and the problem becomes an insurance issue (rodent chewed up wiring), car was clearly crashed/ran over a curb, they can then charge the diag fee.
If they find nothing, deem the "issue/noise" "normal", or the issue requires a warranty covered repair, the customer does not get charged the diag fee. If a non-warranty covered repair is performed, the customer does not get charged diag. If a non-warranty repair is needed, and the customer declines, then (and only then) they are charged the diag fee.
They may make you sign something for a diag fee, but it will always be waived if you have a warranty. They make you sign so that if they get in their, and the problem becomes an insurance issue (rodent chewed up wiring), car was clearly crashed/ran over a curb, they can then charge the diag fee.
If they find nothing, deem the "issue/noise" "normal", or the issue requires a warranty covered repair, the customer does not get charged the diag fee. If a non-warranty covered repair is performed, the customer does not get charged diag. If a non-warranty repair is needed, and the customer declines, then (and only then) they are charged the diag fee.
I think I should have re-stated when I responded to your last comment above as well, but yes, that was the "correct" I gave you.
Jan 29, 2015, 04:54 PM
#24
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There is so much bad information in this thread it is ridiculous. I personally do the job that all of you are complaining about. I am a service advisor for a PNW VW dealership.
Now, regarding diagnosis fees, for our dealership, if a vehicle comes in while under the 3 year/36,000 miles bumper to bumper warranty, I do not quote for any diagnosis fees. Again, that is my dealership (we have Mitsubishi also), what others do that is what they do. When a customer comes in with an outlandish concern or a concern that may just be normal, it is the job of a good service advisor to take everything seriously. Say for instance a customer of mine comes in and is concerned with her brakes, and I by pass her concern, due to it may be "normal". I did not do my job. Now, say I wrote a line up on the repair order and tech looks at it(which happens a lot) and finds nothing wrong. The manufacturer does pay some, but it falls under what is called a "dice warranty claim". Dice warranty claims can only have up to a .5 flag on them and other than that they are basically what in my field is called a customer satisfaction fee.
The problem with "dice warranty" claims is that if your dealership gets too many of them, they can be hit with charge backs or penalties. Most dealerships try to limit the amount of dice claims that they have for that reason.
Now, as far as waiving the diagnostic fee's goes. That does not happen anywhere. I can attest to that. Service advisors get paid on commission. now, if every time a customer came in and tech spent an hour to diagnose the car, and say the tech cost $20/hour, and he looked did 5 diagnosis in one day, that would cost the advisor/dealership $100 per day. Now most shops have more than one tech. some have 16-20. Mine has 6. so, if I covered the diagnosis of all jobs, 5 jobs per tech * 6 technicians, my dealership would lose out on $600 per day. Multiply that by 5 days a week then by 52 weeks a year (not including Saturdays) that would be $156,000.00 per year that the dealership would have to internalize. I can tell you there is no service manager in the world that would allow that much to be charged to there service policy.
Truth is, most people do not know how to work on their cars. Most people do not want to work on their own cars. Most people do not have the time to work on their own cars. Family, life, work gets in the way. Most people just want their car fixed and most want it fixed correctly the first time and not have to comeback for a part or for whatever it may be. They just want it fixed. I read a lot on here about dealerships and how they are terrible. That may be the case for some. An advisor is on the front line for the customer. You purchased a $40,000+ vehicle. Something is now wrong. The advisor did not make the car, nor does he design it, nor does he make up the process to get things fixed and covered under warranty.
There is a thread on here that was " common failures of the evo x" or something to that effect. One of the post was " my warranty, it has never worked"
That is bull**** if you ask me. That advisor, chose not to do his job. When a customer comes in for a concern, regardless what is found (unless it is outside influence or by modification) there is nothing I can't get covered. It is all about the story you write and that dictates how something is covered. If a particular advisor doesn't care, it won't get covered. That is the truth.
Now, regarding diagnosis fees, for our dealership, if a vehicle comes in while under the 3 year/36,000 miles bumper to bumper warranty, I do not quote for any diagnosis fees. Again, that is my dealership (we have Mitsubishi also), what others do that is what they do. When a customer comes in with an outlandish concern or a concern that may just be normal, it is the job of a good service advisor to take everything seriously. Say for instance a customer of mine comes in and is concerned with her brakes, and I by pass her concern, due to it may be "normal". I did not do my job. Now, say I wrote a line up on the repair order and tech looks at it(which happens a lot) and finds nothing wrong. The manufacturer does pay some, but it falls under what is called a "dice warranty claim". Dice warranty claims can only have up to a .5 flag on them and other than that they are basically what in my field is called a customer satisfaction fee.
The problem with "dice warranty" claims is that if your dealership gets too many of them, they can be hit with charge backs or penalties. Most dealerships try to limit the amount of dice claims that they have for that reason.
Now, as far as waiving the diagnostic fee's goes. That does not happen anywhere. I can attest to that. Service advisors get paid on commission. now, if every time a customer came in and tech spent an hour to diagnose the car, and say the tech cost $20/hour, and he looked did 5 diagnosis in one day, that would cost the advisor/dealership $100 per day. Now most shops have more than one tech. some have 16-20. Mine has 6. so, if I covered the diagnosis of all jobs, 5 jobs per tech * 6 technicians, my dealership would lose out on $600 per day. Multiply that by 5 days a week then by 52 weeks a year (not including Saturdays) that would be $156,000.00 per year that the dealership would have to internalize. I can tell you there is no service manager in the world that would allow that much to be charged to there service policy.
Truth is, most people do not know how to work on their cars. Most people do not want to work on their own cars. Most people do not have the time to work on their own cars. Family, life, work gets in the way. Most people just want their car fixed and most want it fixed correctly the first time and not have to comeback for a part or for whatever it may be. They just want it fixed. I read a lot on here about dealerships and how they are terrible. That may be the case for some. An advisor is on the front line for the customer. You purchased a $40,000+ vehicle. Something is now wrong. The advisor did not make the car, nor does he design it, nor does he make up the process to get things fixed and covered under warranty.
There is a thread on here that was " common failures of the evo x" or something to that effect. One of the post was " my warranty, it has never worked"
That is bull**** if you ask me. That advisor, chose not to do his job. When a customer comes in for a concern, regardless what is found (unless it is outside influence or by modification) there is nothing I can't get covered. It is all about the story you write and that dictates how something is covered. If a particular advisor doesn't care, it won't get covered. That is the truth.
Jan 29, 2015, 05:00 PM
#25
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There is so much bad information in this thread it is ridiculous. I personally do the job that all of you are complaining about. I am a service advisor for a PNW VW dealership.
Now, regarding diagnosis fees, for our dealership, if a vehicle comes in while under the 3 year/36,000 miles bumper to bumper warranty, I do not quote for any diagnosis fees. Again, that is my dealership (we have Mitsubishi also), what others do that is what they do. When a customer comes in with an outlandish concern or a concern that may just be normal, it is the job of a good service advisor to take everything seriously. Say for instance a customer of mine comes in and is concerned with her brakes, and I by pass her concern, due to it may be "normal". I did not do my job. Now, say I wrote a line up on the repair order and tech looks at it(which happens a lot) and finds nothing wrong. The manufacturer does pay some, but it falls under what is called a "dice warranty claim". Dice warranty claims can only have up to a .5 flag on them and other than that they are basically what in my field is called a customer satisfaction fee.
The problem with "dice warranty" claims is that if your dealership gets too many of them, they can be hit with charge backs or penalties. Most dealerships try to limit the amount of dice claims that they have for that reason.
Now, as far as waiving the diagnostic fee's goes. That does not happen anywhere. I can attest to that. Service advisors get paid on commission. now, if every time a customer came in and tech spent an hour to diagnose the car, and say the tech cost $20/hour, and he looked did 5 diagnosis in one day, that would cost the advisor/dealership $100 per day. Now most shops have more than one tech. some have 16-20. Mine has 6. so, if I covered the diagnosis of all jobs, 5 jobs per tech * 6 technicians, my dealership would lose out on $600 per day. Multiply that by 5 days a week then by 52 weeks a year (not including Saturdays) that would be $156,000.00 per year that the dealership would have to internalize. I can tell you there is no service manager in the world that would allow that much to be charged to there service policy.
Truth is, most people do not know how to work on their cars. Most people do not want to work on their own cars. Most people do not have the time to work on their own cars. Family, life, work gets in the way. Most people just want their car fixed and most want it fixed correctly the first time and not have to comeback for a part or for whatever it may be. They just want it fixed. I read a lot on here about dealerships and how they are terrible. That may be the case for some. An advisor is on the front line for the customer. You purchased a $40,000+ vehicle. Something is now wrong. The advisor did not make the car, nor does he design it, nor does he make up the process to get things fixed and covered under warranty.
There is a thread on here that was " common failures of the evo x" or something to that effect. One of the post was " my warranty, it has never worked"
That is bull**** if you ask me. That advisor, chose not to do his job. When a customer comes in for a concern, regardless what is found (unless it is outside influence or by modification) there is nothing I can't get covered. It is all about the story you write and that dictates how something is covered. If a particular advisor doesn't care, it won't get covered. That is the truth.
Now, regarding diagnosis fees, for our dealership, if a vehicle comes in while under the 3 year/36,000 miles bumper to bumper warranty, I do not quote for any diagnosis fees. Again, that is my dealership (we have Mitsubishi also), what others do that is what they do. When a customer comes in with an outlandish concern or a concern that may just be normal, it is the job of a good service advisor to take everything seriously. Say for instance a customer of mine comes in and is concerned with her brakes, and I by pass her concern, due to it may be "normal". I did not do my job. Now, say I wrote a line up on the repair order and tech looks at it(which happens a lot) and finds nothing wrong. The manufacturer does pay some, but it falls under what is called a "dice warranty claim". Dice warranty claims can only have up to a .5 flag on them and other than that they are basically what in my field is called a customer satisfaction fee.
The problem with "dice warranty" claims is that if your dealership gets too many of them, they can be hit with charge backs or penalties. Most dealerships try to limit the amount of dice claims that they have for that reason.
Now, as far as waiving the diagnostic fee's goes. That does not happen anywhere. I can attest to that. Service advisors get paid on commission. now, if every time a customer came in and tech spent an hour to diagnose the car, and say the tech cost $20/hour, and he looked did 5 diagnosis in one day, that would cost the advisor/dealership $100 per day. Now most shops have more than one tech. some have 16-20. Mine has 6. so, if I covered the diagnosis of all jobs, 5 jobs per tech * 6 technicians, my dealership would lose out on $600 per day. Multiply that by 5 days a week then by 52 weeks a year (not including Saturdays) that would be $156,000.00 per year that the dealership would have to internalize. I can tell you there is no service manager in the world that would allow that much to be charged to there service policy.
Truth is, most people do not know how to work on their cars. Most people do not want to work on their own cars. Most people do not have the time to work on their own cars. Family, life, work gets in the way. Most people just want their car fixed and most want it fixed correctly the first time and not have to comeback for a part or for whatever it may be. They just want it fixed. I read a lot on here about dealerships and how they are terrible. That may be the case for some. An advisor is on the front line for the customer. You purchased a $40,000+ vehicle. Something is now wrong. The advisor did not make the car, nor does he design it, nor does he make up the process to get things fixed and covered under warranty.
There is a thread on here that was " common failures of the evo x" or something to that effect. One of the post was " my warranty, it has never worked"
That is bull**** if you ask me. That advisor, chose not to do his job. When a customer comes in for a concern, regardless what is found (unless it is outside influence or by modification) there is nothing I can't get covered. It is all about the story you write and that dictates how something is covered. If a particular advisor doesn't care, it won't get covered. That is the truth.
The point of waiving a diag fee is because you're now part way into the job to replace what the problem was. If I agreed to a diag fee, and then proceeded to have performed, I would expect the diag fee be waived for that reason, and if it was I would go elsewhere. I have three friends that are service advisors, and all of their dealerships waive the diag fee when work is performed.
Jan 29, 2015, 05:16 PM
#26
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The point of waiving a diag fee is because you're now part way into the job to replace what the problem was. If I agreed to a diag fee, and then proceeded to have performed, I would expect the diag fee be waived for that reason, and if it was I would go elsewhere. I have three friends that are service advisors, and all of their dealerships waive the diag fee when work is performed.
I can tell you that the Mitsubishi advisor with my auto group goes above and beyond. I have a good spare 4b11t block with pistons and rods due to a warranty replacement of an engine.
Jan 30, 2015, 01:22 PM
#28
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Are they waiving the diagnosis fee or are they rolling it into the repair. if a job pay 2 hours and you have an hour of diag, that would be 3 hours of labor. Most advisors just sell the job not the parts, not the labor, The job. if I tell you it will be $357 for labor and $250 for parts, then the customer is just going to go elsewhere, whereas, if I say $607.00 for the repair, it makes it easier to stomach. I do this for a living. Vw's break a lot. I have had my fair share and they break a lot. The evo community is a good community and helps their own out. But with what I read about dealerships on here is rough. At my dealership we have a rule of three. Did they buy the car here, do they service with us, and do they live local. If all three apply, we tend to do more for that customer with a larger repair and I may internalize portions of it due to loyalty. In this business it is all about retaining the customer. Yes, dealerships are expensive. But like I said, for most people, they just want their car fixed.
I can tell you that the Mitsubishi advisor with my auto group goes above and beyond. I have a good spare 4b11t block with pistons and rods due to a warranty replacement of an engine.
I can tell you that the Mitsubishi advisor with my auto group goes above and beyond. I have a good spare 4b11t block with pistons and rods due to a warranty replacement of an engine.
They waive it. I don't take my Evo to dealers, I fix it myself. This is relay from my friends that do exactly what you do.
I had a VW, a 2007 GTI. Took it in to the dealer because it was having breakup at high RPM. After I had already pulled the HPFP to verify the cam follower was done (it was worn through), the dealer attempted to tell me a bunch of other **** was wrong with the car. Bad plugs/coils, bad MAF etc. The quote they gave me for replacing the MAF, coils, and plugs had the diag fee waived. They told me its SOP to waive diag fee when repairs are carried out. It took 30 minutes of arguing with the writer and manager to finally get the tech to pull the fuel pump and inspect it. Of course they should have been able to tell because MAF flow and IPW would stay consistent, and fuel pressure would plummet, and the car would fall on its face. Indicating fuel pump, not ignition or MAF.
Regardless, they ended up fixing it under the extended "warranty" TSB VW had out for it. I paid $0, and the manager gave me free oil change because I was able to diag my car better than his "VW trained tech". Those were his words, apparently they fired him because that was not the first time he had completely misdiagnosed something.
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mr.almeida
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