Community Tephra Tweaking
Nov 9, 2010, 10:23 PM
#1
Community Tephra Tweaking
Im making this thread for everyone that has questions or answers regardgind tuning your tephra rom. This is not how to install it and fix the settings to fit your turbo lancer but more of timing issue, fuel, injectors etc... If you want to learn how to download click Senates links in his signature
Nov 9, 2010, 10:24 PM
#2
heres my 2 issues and feel free to post up your issues as well so we can try new ideas and get them fixed
1.) cold start or warmed start up afrs go staright to 17.0+ then when it warms up for a little bit it the O2 sensor kicks in and keeps it to stoich 14.7-15.2 fluctuating
2.) when I do a 3rd gear pull I get great afrs, but when Im about to race I get a good 3rd gear pull all the way to redline but when I shift into 4th to keep up the momentum I get fast Cel lights either because of real knock or fast knock. I can feel the car slow down so im assuming it real knock.
so for the second heres my idea
I think the map needs to have an arch affect from different load areas and heres my thinking, when you WOT and you shift it has to start froma different load column and build itself up again. So if you get a good third gear pull see where you start your load again and lower the timing in that column so it can build itself again. Like if you notice in the higher loads it starts off with -10 and works its way down it seems to me its starting somewhere in the map and keeps the timing to high. Like 03lance said he kept lowering his timing until he was getting no power and still had this issue.
Sorry for the long paragraph but this is my idea and I need opinions or other ideas before trying it.
1.) cold start or warmed start up afrs go staright to 17.0+ then when it warms up for a little bit it the O2 sensor kicks in and keeps it to stoich 14.7-15.2 fluctuating
2.) when I do a 3rd gear pull I get great afrs, but when Im about to race I get a good 3rd gear pull all the way to redline but when I shift into 4th to keep up the momentum I get fast Cel lights either because of real knock or fast knock. I can feel the car slow down so im assuming it real knock.
so for the second heres my idea
I think the map needs to have an arch affect from different load areas and heres my thinking, when you WOT and you shift it has to start froma different load column and build itself up again. So if you get a good third gear pull see where you start your load again and lower the timing in that column so it can build itself again. Like if you notice in the higher loads it starts off with -10 and works its way down it seems to me its starting somewhere in the map and keeps the timing to high. Like 03lance said he kept lowering his timing until he was getting no power and still had this issue.
Sorry for the long paragraph but this is my idea and I need opinions or other ideas before trying it.
Nov 10, 2010, 02:04 AM
#3
As far as mine and your issues with the fast shift knock. I can tell you this whether its real or not the car will always lose power during this just due to the ecu is assuming it is real and taking the appropriate act (ie lower timing) to combat the knock resulting in loss of power 
I am going to do some good searching tomorrow on this subject to see what I can dig up.
Side note I found A cool article from awhile back regarding an experiment with spark knock. Its long lol but interesting
http://www.autospeed.com/A_110829/cms/article.html
I am going to do some good searching tomorrow on this subject to see what I can dig up.Side note I found A cool article from awhile back regarding an experiment with spark knock. Its long lol but interesting
http://www.autospeed.com/A_110829/cms/article.html
Nov 10, 2010, 05:19 AM
#4
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heres my 2 issues and feel free to post up your issues as well so we can try new ideas and get them fixed
1.) cold start or warmed start up afrs go staright to 17.0+ then when it warms up for a little bit it the O2 sensor kicks in and keeps it to stoich 14.7-15.2 fluctuating
2.) when I do a 3rd gear pull I get great afrs, but when Im about to race I get a good 3rd gear pull all the way to redline but when I shift into 4th to keep up the momentum I get fast Cel lights either because of real knock or fast knock. I can feel the car slow down so im assuming it real knock.
so for the second heres my idea
I think the map needs to have an arch affect from different load areas and heres my thinking, when you WOT and you shift it has to start froma different load column and build itself up again. So if you get a good third gear pull see where you start your load again and lower the timing in that column so it can build itself again. Like if you notice in the higher loads it starts off with -10 and works its way down it seems to me its starting somewhere in the map and keeps the timing to high. Like 03lance said he kept lowering his timing until he was getting no power and still had this issue.
Sorry for the long paragraph but this is my idea and I need opinions or other ideas before trying it.
1.) cold start or warmed start up afrs go staright to 17.0+ then when it warms up for a little bit it the O2 sensor kicks in and keeps it to stoich 14.7-15.2 fluctuating
2.) when I do a 3rd gear pull I get great afrs, but when Im about to race I get a good 3rd gear pull all the way to redline but when I shift into 4th to keep up the momentum I get fast Cel lights either because of real knock or fast knock. I can feel the car slow down so im assuming it real knock.
so for the second heres my idea
I think the map needs to have an arch affect from different load areas and heres my thinking, when you WOT and you shift it has to start froma different load column and build itself up again. So if you get a good third gear pull see where you start your load again and lower the timing in that column so it can build itself again. Like if you notice in the higher loads it starts off with -10 and works its way down it seems to me its starting somewhere in the map and keeps the timing to high. Like 03lance said he kept lowering his timing until he was getting no power and still had this issue.
Sorry for the long paragraph but this is my idea and I need opinions or other ideas before trying it.
Nov 10, 2010, 06:11 AM
#5
As far as mine and your issues with the fast shift knock. I can tell you this whether its real or not the car will always lose power during this just due to the ecu is assuming it is real and taking the appropriate act (ie lower timing) to combat the knock resulting in loss of power I am going to do some good searching tomorrow on this subject to see what I can dig up.
Side note I found A cool article from awhile back regarding an experiment with spark knock. Its long lol but interesting
http://www.autospeed.com/A_110829/cms/article.html
I am going to do some good searching tomorrow on this subject to see what I can dig up.Side note I found A cool article from awhile back regarding an experiment with spark knock. Its long lol but interesting
http://www.autospeed.com/A_110829/cms/article.html
edit** I didnt do the arch effect reason why is because when I try to do it its going to pull way to much timing in most of the areas in the map.
so what I did was anything above 100 load I checked every column to make sure each degree corresponds with the one around it. I got the low timing really smoothed out, and the high timing need a few adjustments so i will see how it goes from here
Last edited by steven121; Nov 10, 2010 at 07:07 AM.
Nov 10, 2010, 06:29 PM
#6
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Knock seems to be a big question with the Tephra, or any EVO Rom, on a lancer ls/oz/es. The Evo rom's ignore knock under 160 load in the range of 0-2500 rpm, and then they are less sensitive in the higher RPM range as well. I think we need a standard copy of lancer knock settings over to the Evo Roms.
The knock filter map does not match the same format , so I have yet to get a safe working evo copy. I'm frankly a little concerned about safety of using the settings stock, but I've not yet seen any issues from anyone else about engine damage in those low load, low rpm areas.
The knock filter map does not match the same format , so I have yet to get a safe working evo copy. I'm frankly a little concerned about safety of using the settings stock, but I've not yet seen any issues from anyone else about engine damage in those low load, low rpm areas.
Last edited by HornstarBU; Nov 11, 2010 at 07:57 AM.
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Nov 11, 2010, 01:04 AM
#8
hey 03lance check out my timing map and tell me what you think?
pm me your email
I might have done something to make the problem not happen quite as often.
I can't really post a picture up because its to small and I dont know how to zoom in
edit nvermind lol found it
pm me your email
I might have done something to make the problem not happen quite as often.
I can't really post a picture up because its to small and I dont know how to zoom in
edit nvermind lol found it
Last edited by steven121; Nov 11, 2010 at 01:09 AM.
Nov 11, 2010, 07:56 AM
#9
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Does anyone have a working "IPW on Cracking" so that I don't have to either try 2-3 times to turn the car on, or push the gas a little? If not, I'll keep tweeking
Nov 11, 2010, 08:18 AM
#10
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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i need this as well, seems everyone with the evo/ tephra rom has this issue no? it takes me about 3-4 seconds cranking to get it to start, its the same with or without the pedal pushed in, but on a cold start it starts up NP, so i tried to adjust the "IPW vs coolant temp" or something like that but im having no luck with it.
Nov 11, 2010, 08:59 AM
#12
I've seen issues with the warm starts as well. It seems to exist with the Tephra V7 ROM and the modified ROM for the auto cars. I've adjusted pretty much every parameter I could find with no luck. Takes about 6 seconds of constant cranking to get it running. This is not an issue on the Evo using the Tephra ROMs, so I assume there is a slight mismatch between the Lancer and Evo cranking routines at temp, or a table we don't have defined that needs to be modified.
As for the lean mix on startup, have you guys tried adjusting the low load, low RPM areas of the fuel map to add a little more fuel for startup? The car will always start in open loop, so the maps will affect the issue.
As for the lean mix on startup, have you guys tried adjusting the low load, low RPM areas of the fuel map to add a little more fuel for startup? The car will always start in open loop, so the maps will affect the issue.
Last edited by TouringBubble; Nov 11, 2010 at 09:02 AM.
Nov 11, 2010, 10:35 AM
#14
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I've seen issues with the warm starts as well. It seems to exist with the Tephra V7 ROM and the modified ROM for the auto cars. I've adjusted pretty much every parameter I could find with no luck. Takes about 6 seconds of constant cranking to get it running. This is not an issue on the Evo using the Tephra ROMs, so I assume there is a slight mismatch between the Lancer and Evo cranking routines at temp, or a table we don't have defined that needs to be modified.
As for the lean mix on startup, have you guys tried adjusting the low load, low RPM areas of the fuel map to add a little more fuel for startup? The car will always start in open loop, so the maps will affect the issue.
As for the lean mix on startup, have you guys tried adjusting the low load, low RPM areas of the fuel map to add a little more fuel for startup? The car will always start in open loop, so the maps will affect the issue.
Thats a good idea, lol so basically we need to find the table somewhere in the lancer rom for the starting issue, otherwise theres nothing us auto lancers & hornstar can do?
Last edited by Mitsu.kid.02; Nov 11, 2010 at 10:57 AM.
Nov 11, 2010, 11:22 AM
#15
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I've seen issues with the warm starts as well. It seems to exist with the Tephra V7 ROM and the modified ROM for the auto cars. I've adjusted pretty much every parameter I could find with no luck. Takes about 6 seconds of constant cranking to get it running. This is not an issue on the Evo using the Tephra ROMs, so I assume there is a slight mismatch between the Lancer and Evo cranking routines at temp, or a table we don't have defined that needs to be modified.
As for the lean mix on startup, have you guys tried adjusting the low load, low RPM areas of the fuel map to add a little more fuel for startup? The car will always start in open loop, so the maps will affect the issue.
As for the lean mix on startup, have you guys tried adjusting the low load, low RPM areas of the fuel map to add a little more fuel for startup? The car will always start in open loop, so the maps will affect the issue.
As for cold start, the tephra rom I have has significantly different values than the Stock Evo rom I have AND the scaling being used is "approx ms" instead of "ms", and if I convert between the 2, the results are no where near the same. I'm going to put stock evo settings in, and see how that does.
Attached is the ones I have to compare.
*Edit* scratch what I said....I'ma try what 03lances has, lol, since his is working for him
Last edited by HornstarBU; Nov 11, 2010 at 11:25 AM.