Alright, I know its weird for a mod to be asking questions, but I pretty much know the answer, I just want some more feedback on it. I am gonna get the rrm piggyback, now the question is, what is the worst that can happen if i used just plain ol 87 octane instead of premium? The reason I ask, is my dad, who owns a supercharged Tahoe with a completely blueprinted block and aftermarket ecu. The ecu says that it requires premium. He has been driving it on 87 for thousands of miles now and has absolutely no problems, it still hauls major a$$. Feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

You wont get as much out of it I would think. You should ask RRM they should know.

 

Who is gonna install your blk? Let me know maybe we can do it at the same time.

 

might get some knock or detonation (i forget which one). i doubt it though, but you asked for worst case. there are sensors in the car to adjust knock if it becomes a problem, but its best to aviod at all costs. for the most part, u will be putting more parts air for every 1 part fuel. so you want a fuel that burns best at the lower mixture. hence, the octane rating. i dont think 87 would really cause knock or det, but it would probably negate the benifits of the piggy.

 

Depends on how much RRM messed with the timing. The way I figure it, RRM doesn't profit from recommending a more expensive fuel, so there must be a good reason for the recommendation. If RRM recommended the more expensive fuel when it wasn't actually needed, that would be bad for their reputation.

 

Rob told me to use at least mid grade, so thats what ima do. thanks guys

 

It will cause more knock and then detonation if the case is sever enough, I assume the piggyback does not get in the way of the ECU too much so the ECU would pull timing and then your car could actually be slower. I have always thought their piggyback seems like a lackluster solution, because simply adding premium to the car should at least be 5whp alone.

 

It wouldnt be a big deal if it was only a few octane levels, now if it required, say, 106 octane, yeah it would recognize something. But ima go with my dad on this one, (he has rebuilt numerous engines). ill let you know how 87 octane does with the piggyback. And btw, premium gas does not add any horsepower.

 

I disagree, I have seen engine Dyno maps on a classisic 350 with 87 vs 93 and it made a difference. It was good for like 10whp, but that still makes a difference.

Also the Honda Accords and some other cars have on the fly timing maps which if it is sensing better gas it won't pull timing, rather it will add which will give you more power if you use premum.

Furthermore, I ran premium93 vs unleaded 87 on a very long 350 mile two way highway trip and the premium I got around 330 miles to the tank and the unleaded I netted around 304 to the tank. This was with a full trunk and a car load of people. It is worth the extra money to buy premium and not even in a performance sense. If you think about it in $$ terms the premium costs anywhere from 20-30 cents more a gallon. To be friendly we will say 25 cents a gallon. 12 gallons is the typical fillup and if you do the math it would cost you $3 more per fill up to use the premium. The difference in in MPG pays for the difference in cost. Although I am sure in normal city driving thye gains will not be this great, they could also be better to. Keep that in mind.

 

Ok, you made a legitimate point, but if you could, explain to me HOW it would make power?

 

I would assume that the ECU would sense less knock from 93 and then advance timing. It is false to say the car felt faster with 93, although I am positive there are noticeable differences somewhere, I wasn't looking for it though on that long trip.

It is like saying using Synthetic is better because it causes less friction and coats the metal better. I would say it is possible that better fuel works in a similar fashion by making the engine work less hard and even cooler because it will have less knock and timing will even get advanced a little which will get you more power.

I would say the premium used alone would be harder to tell than with the piggyback. The piggyback is able to advance things more than the stock computer would be doign in the first place. The ECU is always learning and changing timing, fuel curves, air cureves, etc. etc, so if you get the piggyback and switch back and forth from 87 to 93 you would probably ok, although I would not recommend doing that to your fuel system. 93 octane as you know has less impurities and therefore burns cleaner which makes more power. The switching from different fules would be fine, although to 100% take advantage of it you would need to reset your ECU each time you switch. Then the computer would relearn the tolerances based on fuel or even new modifications.

It is no doubt the premium fuel brings out the piggyback, but it is a decison you must make. The piggyback is an ideal mod for 99% of drivers because it is firmware and does not allow you to change settings, a lot of people like that. Since I'm not a ECU programmer, or a tuners I like that too. I would rather trust RRM with my warranty then myself messing with a million settings.

Has anyone put a SAFC or Emanage on a RA in a NA form?

 

ditto with joe's evo8

-joe

 

Me and my brother put a Safc on his RA. We haven't had time to take it in and dyno tune it yet though, he has a hectic scheduel. But from the a/f ratios I've seen on here, you guys should be able to make a substantial gain. Should get 13 hp and torque pretty easy. We should hit the dyno soon cause I have to go in and re-tune my spec-v now that my down pipe is on.

As for running premium I'd do it. I'd know much about RRM, but if their piggy back leans it out alot or advances the timing alot then you are going to need the higher octane. If you run the 87 and your car starts knocking then your ecu is gonna pull timing causing you to lose power. It's not like gas is that expesive for us guys with small cars. I never go over $24 on a fill up I run nothing but premium.

 

That is great, you will have to keep us posted on how that SAFC goes. Do they have an install document on that somewhere? I am very interested in your results.
Joe

PS-> Nice SE-R V!

 

No install document, me and bro installed it, we're pretty good with cars. I'll post our numbers once we tune it.