You know my opinion...lol but in all fairness I cant really say one way or another as far as the calculations go that is way over my head. I guess the difference would be try the Merlin Definition and judge for yourself. For me i noticed a difference Bakuro noticed a difference but you may feel different? you may like the way the car responds with hacks work, only you can decide that. As far as the "settings" go from my knowledge and I base it off my last use of hacks software there are ton more on the Merlin Definitions. I have heard that there are more settings now than the version i had. Hack has created 2 maps he calls boost and mivec boost, many many times i have asked him what are they and what do they do? his explanation was, they are a bunch of fuel adders that all contribute to fueling, so what are they really? either way I would rather have the maps separate and let me or my tuner decide what to used them for. In the end you are relying on that hack really knows this ecu. For argument sake lets say that the settings that go into the boost and mivec boost maps should be left to function on their own? hacks way you have no choice Merlin''s way you have the choice. If hack is correct then all is well, for me personally I want the options to make individual changes to each map.

To a point absolutely. Again it comes down to who is taking the raw data and converting it to a map that can be edited, this is where the differences are. For example take XML for the same ROMID done by 2 different people with 2 different ways of doing thing and you will get 2 different results I cant speak to how that is done but I do know if there are 2 different people doing it you will end up with 2 different ways of doing things, resulting in 2 different results.

 

I just feel that with hack's reflash I'm still missing something. I don't know if you remember but when I came to see you it was a bunch of problems. You were missing something you had sent me a msg and I didn't see it then we tried to do it at your house it didn't work I had to go meet Micheal at his house. Instead of making my own file he flashed a file that he already had on his laptop. He told me the guy had about the same bolt-ons. So meaning the flash is probably not the best that it could be if he would of took time to make me one. Now I race my friend from time to time. He's stock with an Intake and I'm barely in front of him going 180+. With all the money I invested you would think id put some distance between us but its maybe a car length at 160kph

I'm wondering if at this point if id be better going to dyno tune my car since its already flashed. Or get a reflash from merlin.

 

Exactly, so the maps will not be the same, depending on how the data is manipulated or interpreted, or how engine load is calculated or whatever, but they will do the same thing, just with different values in different places...but essentially they both have the same limitation based on physical limitations of the engine design, and the type of fuel used.

 

There is (generally) more to be tuned than just the fuel and spark maps.

In many markets and models, there can be or are some peculiar closed-loop settings, which can also hold back a tune.

You might also be getting phantom knock, ie "knock" that is not real. So the ability to slightly de-sensitize the detection code can be gold.

And then there are other functions that can be properly negated/turned of, eg traction control and EGR that will help the cause. So, if possible, its helpful to try and get as big a picture of what is going on in there as you can. You may some day need to beat up on some weird / obscure thingy in the ECU.

 

I see you point but when you compare hacks and work and Merlin (hey Merlin tks for dropping in!) there is a big difference the way the car feels. Someone is doing something that the other is not.

NOW I REMEMBER YOU!!!! Very sorry!!! I remember you contacted him or me about a week or so before you drove all the way from Montreal to Ottawa to get your car tuned and mike was supposed to have something ready for you and when you got here he did not send me what was needed to flash your car and you had to go all the way back to Gatineau 45mins from my place for him to flash your car. By what you just said did hack use someone else's ROM on your car? or did he read it and build a definition for your car and then load the tuned maps? Please tell me he did not just flash someones ROM in your car?????

For the cost of the Merling Definition it is worth the comparison. My email has changed xxxclusivemotorsportsxxx@gmail.com I can send you the details.

 

JTCB, if you've already paid for a tuning solution, there's no real point in paying for another, if you want a more aggressive tune, take it somewhere and get it dyno tuned. Do you have the latest software version? the datalogger bug I found is now fixed Whatever you choose is up to you, I just don't think either solution is better, or worse...they are both FAR better than our previous option (piggy back).


also, as far as racing goes, tuning and full bolt ons won't make a HUGE difference...with hackish's base tune, and homemade cold air intake, I went from 15.8 to 15.3...that was my best before turbocharging, and some of it was probably that I got better at launching. 0.5 seconds in the 1/4 I don't even think is a full car length at 89mph, and racing from a roll is even harder to create a gap with closely matched cars. these are high 15 second cars with good driving. With an aggressive tune and full bolt ons, maybe some porting and exhaust work, you could probably trap a high 14. I had to double my whp to shave 2 seconds off my ET, and get into the 13's, now I'm limited by traction, not power.


merlin, thanks for stopping by, I can't even pretend to understand what it is guys like you hackish know, and do, but I like the layman's explanation


Brent, sorry if it seems like I'm playing hard ball, but I'm trying to get facts straight, not only for myself, but others as well, and I know you will be the first one to admit each solution has its ups and downs, as your car has been extensively tested from both sides, and my hat is off to you for everything you've done for the CS7A platform, even though you keep trying to sell it

 

Its difficult to say this with accuracy as you have never tested both, Bukaro and myself have.

Not playing hardball I know you on a personal level and you have always treated mew with respect and I know you are up for a good conversation. For sure I will be the first to admit it and I will say it again both systems have good points and bad. It boils down to the individual dissembling the ROMS and his knowledge of how the ECU functions (all of its functions). If one guy has more experience dealing with Mitsubishi code well it stand to reason his work should be better or different. In this case Merlin has more experience than hack, hence the guys that have tested both say there is a difference. Albeit I am one of them and my opinion is very bias. I believe there will be more and more people testing both. I hate to say it but I have a few guys have been in contacting me inquiring that their car feels "flat"

perfect and example it is the same with my car It just never felt right I don't have the tech knowledge to why but what I do know, it is my car i know how it feels and when it feels.....off.

 

If these guys gave two ****s about this platform 6 years ago, I WOULD have experience with both. Everything I do with my car is to benefit the community...I have in the the past, when I was new to the car, but I generally don't come here for help with petty problems I'm having with my car. I come here to share my experiences (wear and tear/maintenance) and my progression in my quest to find out what a stock motor is capable of.



flat compared to what? the tune doesn't get worse over time. If they go from stock to tuned, and it feels less powerful, then there's a problem. lol, if I go back to 8psi, my car feels flat...

 

It is not a matter of them giving a crap. It's the same as you and me and all other Ralliart honks. These guys own EVO's and they put thier talents towards what they drive.

 

Well, I do love Evos of course, but I also like to dig into other cars Mitsu make and see what can be done to make them go better using the factory ECU.

In the last two weeks, I have been asked to look at two models I've never previously examined - a Challenger and a 1.8L 4G93 engined Pajero, which you would have thought was way too small an engine for an off-roader like the Pajero. But of course its interesting finding all the maps, with new twists etc and in the end, the car is better and more fun to drive.

So, I hope you can appreciate that if we are not asked to play in your pond (and probably given some inc$entive to do so) and most importantly provided with the raw roms to work with, then not much will happen.

I would also like to add that, its a damm shame we in Oz did not get some of the sweet rides you guys stateside have had to play with over years.

 

^^^^^^ ???!!!!

Guys in Oz are perfectly located geographically and also have their steering wheels on the correct side of the car and this gives them access to all the wonderful JDM vehicles.
Mirage Cyborg, Lancer MR, Baby Evo, Evo, WRX, STI, Pajero Evo, Nissan Pulsar GTI-R, Mazda 323 GTX, Skylines, Toyota Corolla GT, FX-GT, Levins & Truenos with the 20 valve engine (Any AE101 chassis really),
all kinds of regular cars that came with 4WD that North America does not know existed.

And I can actually name more !!
Then you guys still had a Ford and GM presence.

Want to trade ?

 

I am with him on this one, I hear there are still some 22Bs rolling around over there...

 

^^

I must have been having one of those seniors moments when I wrote that comment.
You are quite right, we do have access to some good rides too, at least on the grey import side of things.

But, the local management of the big Jap auto companies have been traditionally reluctant to bring in the hot models, we generally only get the cooking / poverty pack editions.

LOL, the first ECU I broke into and tuned was in 1987, 20Valve Toyota Levin, Bathurst track car. It won class that year too!

And yes, there sure are still a few 22Bs out there, track days will bring them out of the garage for a gallop.

 

Merlin, been really busy on and off the track, specifically buying a house...setting up the sound system as we speak. I'm short of cash, (for obvious reasons) and need to install an LSD on top of that. I'm still interested in trying your tune and will get back to you ASAP. Save one for me.

 

How the new flash is going for the Eclipse community:

EosRebel:

So I just wanted to jump in on this since those quotes are my own. The entire process has been as painless as possible and communication has been incredible. From answering emails at all times of the day to actual phone calls to check in and see how things are going, there was never a point where I was worried things were going to go horribly wrong.

Timelines were established from the get go and were met on schedule if not before what I had anticipated. Total tune time from receiving the definition to flashing final ROM was nine days, included 12 different versions to really make sure things were dialed in. And those changes are incredibly noticeable.

The last rom that combined the best of two is what I decided to be the final version really is the best of what I had tested and is exactly what I had hoped for at the beginning of this process. My car now is really a Jekyl and Hyde in that low load is still civil and MPG has gone way up but when I lay on the throttle it screams and really moves. Having 3rd gear now be an actually useful gear is something I haven't gotten used to yet and brings a smile to my face when it holds on to it instead of short shifting into 4th.

MPG gains were certainly expected, but not at the levels I'm seeing. On the stock ROM I would see 250-275 miles per tank if I did mixed driving, and maybe be lucky to break 315 if I did all highway. Now my worst tank has been 325 with primarily city driving, and am getting 350ish mixed and over 400 on all highway.

Could the tune be tweaked even further? Most likely, but the gains are probably going to be so small I will never notice and would most likely fall under standard margin of error. I'm going to be scheduling some dyno time before I go down to MOD to quantify exact HP gains as I'm really curious to see where I stand now.

EDIT: I also wanted to go over the fact that I rented the MMCFLASH from Brent as well. I sent him the deposit for it when I paid for the tune, and when I was done I was given the address of the next person in line for it. I shipped it, sent the tracking number to Brent and when the MMCFLASH arrived at the next destination my deposit for the MMCFLASH was refunded. This was just another situation where communication was very open and clear, and never did I once feel the need to be concerned.

If any of you are thinking about going this route and have any questions shoot me a PM, I'm more than happy to share my side of things.

RobZ

OK yall, there is no vid so don't ask

I'm working with Brent tuning my GT.

So far we have been tuning the fuel maps to improve my AFR. Well we installed a tune to stert working on giving the car some kick. So I take it on a short drive, just to see how it responds.

I'm setting at a light not paying attention and suddanly my car shakes and this thunder roars through us. In my mirror I see a Pontiac Firebird. Don't know the year, but it looked like my Son's 98 camaro. Anyway it is just ratteling my car. My Sun says go for it Dad. ME I say no way he will eat me alive.

Jump ahead, we are side by side. I'm in 3rd at 40 and I hear him roar. Well I put my foot down and after 2.5 blocks we are still door handle to door handle. We let off and as I slide in behind him for traffic he gives me a thumbs up.

I really expected him to walk away. From the sound of his car it was BUILT.

So THANK YOU Brent So far I'm impressed

Tsen:

I feel like I should chime in here too. I hope this isn't too long of a read for you guys.

In the past I've used the Bratt box (improved performance/mpg a bit but not enough to justify the price), and the AEM FIC (wasn't skilled enough to get everything to have a stock feel to it) before the ecuflash software came along. Then Brent and the tactrix guys came along with interest in making it it compatible with our 4G platform. Been talking to Brent way early on about all the tuning stuff and my experience has been consistently great.

Been taking it slow, adding one component at a time since many of em really make me nervous and believe me, there are alot of components involved in my build. Even though I know what I'm doing (I think[I hope]), its still a bit nerve racking do deal with things so intertwined with the system that one tiny mistake somewhere will put the car in limp mode. But Merlin's definition file really puts the ecuflash software to the next generation for us. Idle control, access to all fuel and timing maps, injector scaling etc., they're all there and available for me to play with! Its such an incredible step up from my old definition!

Because I had a ton of non-oem parts installed, the car used to hiccup or stutter once in awhile and the definition file I had before just didn't access enough for me to fix all of them. All hardware was double triple quadruple checked in hopes that it was a personal error but some things can only be changed with tuning. Merlin's file really let me just get in there, change some values slightly, then come back out with excellent results. My GS feels nowhere as sluggish as before. I'm getting 420+MPG (125 on a quarter tank last time I checked) on regular commutes with passing power to safely avoid that pesky old man in the inside fwy lane. Best of all, the car feels like how a stock car should.

As for Brent, I think the latest email I sent to him dates back to more than a year ago. I'll admit I'm not the easiest customer to deal with. I try to do my research before I bother vendors but there are many that I still need answered. Also, I wanted software to give me the freedom to access everything and tweak it if need be. Brent has answered all my questions promptly and given great info for many of my questions. He is great to do business with on a professional level and now I even consider him a friend for all the help he's given me.

Anyways, that is the long way of saying that this stuff is great. So far, I have nothing but positive things to say about my experience in tuning.

Its looking very good!