Ralliart Sportback With Triple the Wing
Jan 19, 2011, 03:23 PM
#31
No wing on this car resulted in the rear getting light and here is the result.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0oJ2...layer_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0oJ2...layer_embedded
Jan 19, 2011, 03:43 PM
#32
No wing on this car resulted in the rear getting light and here is the result.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0oJ2...layer_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0oJ2...layer_embedded
Jan 19, 2011, 03:50 PM
#33
He lost control of the car when he lifted to slow down. All wheel drive had no effect on this event. The lack of down force created the spin. the rear was in need of a little weight to keep it planted.
Don
"small video of my car spining at the MLR 30-130 day at RAF Marham 03/11/07 - previous run of 182mph went fine, second run i removed the rear spoiler as it was bending alot at high speed; i hoped it would give me another 10mph, instead it gave me zero down force and zero stability once i came off the gas! Took a deep breath and held on until the ride finished!"
Don
"small video of my car spining at the MLR 30-130 day at RAF Marham 03/11/07 - previous run of 182mph went fine, second run i removed the rear spoiler as it was bending alot at high speed; i hoped it would give me another 10mph, instead it gave me zero down force and zero stability once i came off the gas! Took a deep breath and held on until the ride finished!"
Jan 19, 2011, 04:25 PM
#34
He lost control of the car when he lifted to slow down. All wheel drive had no effect on this event. The lack of down force created the spin. the rear was in need of a little weight to keep it planted.
Don
"small video of my car spining at the MLR 30-130 day at RAF Marham 03/11/07 - previous run of 182mph went fine, second run i removed the rear spoiler as it was bending alot at high speed; i hoped it would give me another 10mph, instead it gave me zero down force and zero stability once i came off the gas! Took a deep breath and held on until the ride finished!"
Don
"small video of my car spining at the MLR 30-130 day at RAF Marham 03/11/07 - previous run of 182mph went fine, second run i removed the rear spoiler as it was bending alot at high speed; i hoped it would give me another 10mph, instead it gave me zero down force and zero stability once i came off the gas! Took a deep breath and held on until the ride finished!"
My quip was having a wing on a fwd car. Besides, that is a bit of an extreme circumstance dont ya think?
Jan 20, 2011, 08:34 AM
#35
Why is it ineffective?
Because of where the second spoiler is. It is in the turbulence pocket (low pressure) created by the rear hatch and actually exacerbated by the original spoiler.
To test this: Measure fuel economy (baseline). Install the second wing. How much did the fuel economy get worse (indicates drag from additional downforce)? Does the rear window stay 'cleaner/longer' (inidcating it is breaking up the vacuum behind the hatch and improving fuel economy)?
The second wing would have to be etended much further aft (silly looking) or much higher (again, silly looking) to get it into the air stream to be effective (at track speeds).
I have not seen an actual computational flow dynamics model output for this car - but i can extrapolate from other cars i have seen.
Truly, the most effective mod from an aero standpoint would be adding the vortex generators from an EvoIX roof to the RASB rear spoiler. It would further increase swirl and break up the very low pressure area behind the hatch (which creates drag). I would also experiment with removing the RASB rear spoiler and utilizing just the Evo vortex generators on the trailing edge of the roof... HHHhhmmm. This change should increase fuel economy (somewhat) but further reduce rear downforce (which is drag/reducing the fuel economy
)
Because of where the second spoiler is. It is in the turbulence pocket (low pressure) created by the rear hatch and actually exacerbated by the original spoiler.
To test this: Measure fuel economy (baseline). Install the second wing. How much did the fuel economy get worse (indicates drag from additional downforce)? Does the rear window stay 'cleaner/longer' (inidcating it is breaking up the vacuum behind the hatch and improving fuel economy)?
The second wing would have to be etended much further aft (silly looking) or much higher (again, silly looking) to get it into the air stream to be effective (at track speeds).
I have not seen an actual computational flow dynamics model output for this car - but i can extrapolate from other cars i have seen.
Truly, the most effective mod from an aero standpoint would be adding the vortex generators from an EvoIX roof to the RASB rear spoiler. It would further increase swirl and break up the very low pressure area behind the hatch (which creates drag). I would also experiment with removing the RASB rear spoiler and utilizing just the Evo vortex generators on the trailing edge of the roof... HHHhhmmm. This change should increase fuel economy (somewhat) but further reduce rear downforce (which is drag/reducing the fuel economy
)
Jan 20, 2011, 09:14 AM
#37
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As someone stated, there's no options for the sportback, specific for the sportback, anywhere on anything.
I know some countries just import the sedans but really, why not make some sportback love and ship internationally? I mean theres virtually NOONE making anything so buisness should be ok as you would be pretty much alone on the market.
Remember it will be a perfect fit for the regular lancer sportback aswell so you'll get both ralliart customers and regular lancer customers.
Ah well... maybe in two years? ..
I know some countries just import the sedans but really, why not make some sportback love and ship internationally? I mean theres virtually NOONE making anything so buisness should be ok as you would be pretty much alone on the market.
Remember it will be a perfect fit for the regular lancer sportback aswell so you'll get both ralliart customers and regular lancer customers.
Ah well... maybe in two years? ..
Jan 20, 2011, 03:11 PM
#38
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Why is it ineffective?
Because of where the second spoiler is. It is in the turbulence pocket (low pressure) created by the rear hatch and actually exacerbated by the original spoiler.
To test this: Measure fuel economy (baseline). Install the second wing. How much did the fuel economy get worse (indicates drag from additional downforce)? Does the rear window stay 'cleaner/longer' (inidcating it is breaking up the vacuum behind the hatch and improving fuel economy)?
The second wing would have to be etended much further aft (silly looking) or much higher (again, silly looking) to get it into the air stream to be effective (at track speeds).
I have not seen an actual computational flow dynamics model output for this car - but i can extrapolate from other cars i have seen.
Truly, the most effective mod from an aero standpoint would be adding the vortex generators from an EvoIX roof to the RASB rear spoiler. It would further increase swirl and break up the very low pressure area behind the hatch (which creates drag). I would also experiment with removing the RASB rear spoiler and utilizing just the Evo vortex generators on the trailing edge of the roof... HHHhhmmm. This change should increase fuel economy (somewhat) but further reduce rear downforce (which is drag/reducing the fuel economy )
Because of where the second spoiler is. It is in the turbulence pocket (low pressure) created by the rear hatch and actually exacerbated by the original spoiler.
To test this: Measure fuel economy (baseline). Install the second wing. How much did the fuel economy get worse (indicates drag from additional downforce)? Does the rear window stay 'cleaner/longer' (inidcating it is breaking up the vacuum behind the hatch and improving fuel economy)?
The second wing would have to be etended much further aft (silly looking) or much higher (again, silly looking) to get it into the air stream to be effective (at track speeds).
I have not seen an actual computational flow dynamics model output for this car - but i can extrapolate from other cars i have seen.
Truly, the most effective mod from an aero standpoint would be adding the vortex generators from an EvoIX roof to the RASB rear spoiler. It would further increase swirl and break up the very low pressure area behind the hatch (which creates drag). I would also experiment with removing the RASB rear spoiler and utilizing just the Evo vortex generators on the trailing edge of the roof... HHHhhmmm. This change should increase fuel economy (somewhat) but further reduce rear downforce (which is drag/reducing the fuel economy
)Sorry I thought you were talking about a larger rear spoler replacing the factory one as being ineffective, not the Ralliart triple wing kit.
Sep 17, 2011, 03:04 PM
#41
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This tread might be old but it's the best thread on the subject: I'm interested in the Sportback but the rear factory wing is a sore spot. It effectively squares off the back, but the long tail sticks way out into the trailing low pressure area, so it seems like the worst of every world, all for some modicum of downforce.
It would appear to me that slope of the back glass is indeed gently enough to be aerodynamic, like the Saab 900 I drive now. The reclined windshield and nicely curved roof/glass transition should make it even better. So my question is first, does this compute, and if so has anyone been able to take off the factory spoiler, and if so what happened?
It would appear to me that slope of the back glass is indeed gently enough to be aerodynamic, like the Saab 900 I drive now. The reclined windshield and nicely curved roof/glass transition should make it even better. So my question is first, does this compute, and if so has anyone been able to take off the factory spoiler, and if so what happened?
Sep 18, 2011, 09:20 AM
#43
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ah that's funny...I'd get some big shiny rivets welded into the holes.
Anyways if anybody is interested I found perfectly level, flat pictures of the side view of the cars and drew triangles on the hatch, finding the angle to be 21 degrees which compared well to the saab at 20 degrees. Lancer had a much gentler roof-hatch transition than the flat-roofed saab which might dial the angle below 20 degrees. So by my extrapolations the SB w/o spoiler is quite aero.
I don't wanna talk about lift - no 3000 pound car is going to fly away at 70 mph.
In general sedans are going aero, but most hatchbacks are just short wagons or worse shrunken "crossovers" which is why Lancer stands out. Lancer very similar to the saab in dimensions, weight, capacity, base power, shape, and carries the same no-nonsense, nationalistic, and individualistic aesthetics...but surely will outdrive it even in basest form.
Anyways if anybody is interested I found perfectly level, flat pictures of the side view of the cars and drew triangles on the hatch, finding the angle to be 21 degrees which compared well to the saab at 20 degrees. Lancer had a much gentler roof-hatch transition than the flat-roofed saab which might dial the angle below 20 degrees. So by my extrapolations the SB w/o spoiler is quite aero.
I don't wanna talk about lift - no 3000 pound car is going to fly away at 70 mph.
In general sedans are going aero, but most hatchbacks are just short wagons or worse shrunken "crossovers" which is why Lancer stands out. Lancer very similar to the saab in dimensions, weight, capacity, base power, shape, and carries the same no-nonsense, nationalistic, and individualistic aesthetics...but surely will outdrive it even in basest form.
(((( 
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