DB Performance

Some of the Evo8/9 ROMs were/are effected by LTFTs at WOT also, but most people didn't believe it or understand what I was talking about a few years ago. With the design of the Evo 8/9 Karmen MAS seperate unit though, it is a lot more forgiving to different intake systems and Evo 8/9s ROMs that were effected by LTFTs at WOT possibly didn't translate in a full 1 to 1 change at WOR fueling like they do on the Subaru's and Evo X where a 5% off LTFT will end up changing WOT fueling 5%. Even the 2G DSMs were affected by LTFTs, but only up to 4500RPMs, after 4500 the 2G ECU would stop applying LTFT to WOT fueling.

This is a huge problem on the newer cars with removeable MAF though. The size of the pipe greatly effects air metering and even bends or BOV returns or coupler transitions near the MAF can have big sideeffects on airflow metering. Most of the Evo X intakes let more unmetered air get by than the stock intake, which leans the car out. Over some time at cruise, the ECU learns to add fuel at part throttle and that ends up adding fuel at WOT too. The problem is whether or not your tuner knows this is going on and what your LTFTs were like when you got tuned compared to what they might settle at, if the tuner didn't spend time getting the cruising LTFTs within reason at different loads.

nj1266, I have used the latency trick also on Evo Xs that just needed a little bit of help with their intake throwing the trims off. I think I used it on Murlo26's Evo X the first time we tuned it right after EcuFlash came out for the X.

Ladogaboy

iTrader: (1)

I just wanted to say that it is nice to know that there are some tuners out there that are willing to take the extra time to do a job right. HBSpeed, I know of you through NASIOC from my WRX days, and I have only heard good things of your work. Thanks.

TTP Engineering

iTrader: (465)

There is no good intake on the market that should REQUIRE the changing of injector size scaling or injector deadtime in order to make them work, period.

Anyone that recommends injector sizing and deadtime changes in order to make an intake work likely uses bain-aids on compound fracture injuries.

If there are intakes in the market such as INJEN that do not fubar the MAF sensor readings and work well. Our best suggestion is for consumers to invest their money and time into buying intakes that have actually been tested to work well on Ralliart 2009.

xdemoulasx

iTrader: (1)

i put my stock airbox back in with the WORKS high flow filter and the car runs a million times better, and i doesnt feel like i lost any power, but more like gained power where it was dying off before. before, when i boosted for more than a few seconds (on big hills or in 5th-6th gear passing people) the car would run out of steam and make almost like sputtering noises. now everything is good again. i will stick with this setup until i can afford a good safe intake (with a tune of course)

Jake26

iTrader: (6)

yeah i had UR intake and took it off. i put my stock box back on with a k and n high flow drop in.. car runs great..

nj1266

iTrader: (6)

ALL intakes do this on Hotwire MAF equipped cars. This is not only an Evo problem as I have encountered this on Subarus as well.

It is not a band aid. It is a solution to the problem. There are Evo Xs triggering P0171 system too lean codes with intakes. Changing the injector latency by 0.05-0.1 ms fixes the problem.

This is an easy problem to fix. The logic supports adjusting the dead time. The stock dead time is designed to work with the stock airflow. When an intake is installed, the airflow changes. So it stands to reason that the tuner has to change the dead time (latency) to compensate for the changed airflow. It is very simple.

I am just flumoxed as to why you consider this a band aid What is your logic here?

nj1266

iTrader: (6)

That is a good thing to do if the car is not tuned for the intake. Your car was probably knocking hard and pulling timing to protect the engine because of the lean condition that the intake was causing.

TheDriver11421

sorry to bump from the dead. but are we 100% sure the lean condition was from the intake?

http://www.amsracingblog.amsperforma...r-to-run-lean/

Jyrk

iTrader: (1)

^wow good read thx!

xdemoulasx

iTrader: (1)

huh. thats interesting stuff. maybe in the future when i can afford to get a few more parts and a tune, i'll throw the intake back on and see if someone can figure this out.

secondchace

the intake will work fine on a tune for it. Mine runs like a dream at 11.4 afr at wot all day and night.


No issues to speak of.

lancera

iTrader: (-1)

Does anyone know if the Injen ralliart cold air intake needs a tune. It says it does, but injen talks about the Mr technology and how it is dyno tune please respond thanks

lancera

iTrader: (-1)

[10:33] meeboguest904048: hey heloo
[10:33] Ultimate Racing: hello
[10:33] Ultimate Racing: how can i help you?
[10:34] meeboguest904048: i am planning on buying something but hoping you guys can give me a discount
[10:34] meeboguest904048: also i want to find out about something
[10:34] Ultimate Racing: sure thing. what are you interested in?
[10:35] meeboguest904048: ok but first off is there anyway to return the intake i brought from you guys?
[10:35] meeboguest904048: because i didn't know it requires a tune and it never said so on the description
[10:35] Ultimate Racing: it doesn't require a tune
[10:36] meeboguest904048: i went on the blog and people say it leans the car out so much and it can damage my engine
[10:39] meeboguest904048: ?
[10:39] Ultimate Racing: hello
[10:39] Ultimate Racing: you must've changed windows
[10:39] meeboguest904048: i didn't i was on this window
[10:39] Ultimate Racing: weird
[10:39] Ultimate Racing: what msg did you get from me last?
[10:39] meeboguest904048: ok yea
[10:39] meeboguest904048: nothing
[10:40] meeboguest904048: i explain about the blog
[10:40] Ultimate Racing: ok i'm obviously missing missing some messages
[10:40] Ultimate Racing: let's start from the beginning
[10:40] Ultimate Racing: how can i help you?
[10:40] meeboguest904048: can i return my intake that i brought from you guys
[10:41] meeboguest904048: i don't mind if it is a 15% restocking fee
[10:41] Ultimate Racing: you had mentioned that the intake requires a tune
[10:41] Ultimate Racing: it does not
[10:41] meeboguest904048: i went on the blog and people say it leans the car out so much and it can damage my engine
[10:41] Ultimate Racing: none of our products with an exception of the fuel components requires a tune
[10:42] Ultimate Racing: certainly not
[10:42] Ultimate Racing: we wouldn't release a product like that
[10:42] meeboguest904048: oh well i want driving my car and something it was hard to start the car up with the intake
[10:42] meeboguest904048: then when i went back to the factory intake everything was fine
[10:43] Ultimate Racing: that shouldn't be
[10:43] meeboguest904048: idk that was the only mod i done to my car
[10:43] Ultimate Racing: did you take the filter off from the MAF pipe prior to installation?
[10:43] meeboguest904048: also i got the cat back from you guys
[10:44] meeboguest904048: no i didn't
[10:44] Ultimate Racing: i'm wondering if it was installed with the MAF pipe backwards
[10:44] Ultimate Racing: that could cause a problem
[10:44] meeboguest904048: it wasn't
[10:44] meeboguest904048: also pleople from the blog said not to install any intake with out a tune
[10:44] meeboguest904048: i got a video of it on youtube
[10:44] Ultimate Racing: not all intakes are created equal
[10:45] Ultimate Racing: ours was not designed to change air/fuel ratios as aggressively as others
[10:45] meeboguest904048: oh but it leans out the car
[10:45] Ultimate Racing: these cars run exceptionally rich from the factory
[10:45] Ultimate Racing: there is always some head room
[10:46] Ultimate Racing: but we do not take things to the ragged edge
[10:46] meeboguest904048: do you want to check the video to see if it is installed right?
[10:46] Ultimate Racing: sure
[10:47] meeboguest904048: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRHkChul59o
[10:47] meeboguest904048: also i read the comment
[10:49] Ultimate Racing: it's difficult to see from that video
[10:49] Ultimate Racing: i can't tell if it's installed the correct way
[10:49] meeboguest904048: yea but did you read the comment about the tune
[10:51] Ultimate Racing: i wouldn't pay too much attention to that post...
[10:51] Ultimate Racing: to be honest
[10:51] Ultimate Racing: most comments on youtube aren't back by any research
[10:51] Ultimate Racing: just people talking
[10:51] Ultimate Racing: we also posts videos on youtube
[10:51] Ultimate Racing: some of the comments we get are quite humorous
[10:51] meeboguest904048: also alot of people on evolutionm.net says the same thing
[10:52] Ultimate Racing: they are categorizing all intakes together
[10:52] meeboguest904048: but ttp talks about ur intake too
[10:52] Ultimate Racing: i'm telling you, ours was specifically designed to run with NO tune
[10:52] meeboguest904048: so did ams
[10:53] Ultimate Racing: those are companies that make money on selling tunes
[10:53] Ultimate Racing: they are a little biased
[10:54] Ultimate Racing: truthfully, there'd be no reason for me to tell you it was designed to run on a stock tune if that weren't true
[10:54] Ultimate Racing: we'd be shooting ourselves in the foot
[10:54] meeboguest904048: how about this. i will keep the intake but can you guys give me a special discount on something
[10:54] Ultimate Racing: haha
[10:54] Ultimate Racing: well
[10:54] Ultimate Racing: let me know what you're interested in
[10:54] Ultimate Racing: and we'll go from there
[10:55] meeboguest904048: also i brought the upgrade for the cat-back and two days later you guys just put up the christmas ad
[10:55] meeboguest904048: can you look my account up and probably refund me that money
[10:55] meeboguest904048: or give me it in store credit
[10:56] Ultimate Racing: unfortunately, i can't refund any money because of a sale
[10:56] Ultimate Racing: if that were the case, where would we draw the line?
[10:56] meeboguest904048: how about store credit
[10:57] meeboguest904048: i mean it is really unfair
[10:58] meeboguest904048: also i am no going to use the intake now because of the comment on that blog
[10:58] Ultimate Racing: i can't be liable for someone's comment
[10:58] Ultimate Racing: the truth is what i told you
[10:58] meeboguest904048: i know
[10:58] Ultimate Racing: the intake was designed to run on stock tune
[10:59] meeboguest904048: what if i have a engine problem in the future and they can prove it that it is the intake do you guy pay for anything?
[11:00] Ultimate Racing: sure. but there would have to be some significant proof
[11:00] Ultimate Racing: once a product leaves our shop
[11:00] Ultimate Racing: i can't prove how the car was driven
[11:00] Ultimate Racing: or maintained
[11:00] Ultimate Racing: maybe 87 octane gas was used
[11:00] Ultimate Racing: understand?
[11:00] Ultimate Racing: it's too difficult to offer warranties like THAT
[11:01] Ultimate Racing: we're not a new company
[11:01] meeboguest904048: i only use 93 octane i will never do that to my car
[11:01] Ultimate Racing: we've been in business for 18 years now
[11:01] Ultimate Racing: i am just saying...
[11:01] Ultimate Racing: there would have to be significant proof
[11:01] Ultimate Racing: but either way
[11:01] meeboguest904048: i will never try to do anything on my new car that will damage it

lancera

iTrader: (-1)

I talking to the guys at ultimate Racing and they said the intake don't need a tune
but i know my car is running leaning with the intake. so what you guys think about this?

murlo26

iTrader: (9)

The Evo's come way rich, like the dyno can barely read them rich. I am sure the Ralliart's aren't much different.

An intake should be fine with your car, if they say they tested it I am sure they did. A company would be dumb not to test it. I am sure they put it on a Ralliart and dyno'ed on the stock tune to see gains.

I would say you will be fine, but it's your car. If you can't trust a company then maybe you shouldn't have bought it from them.

Honestly I think UR is a reliable source and I personally trust them. But it's up to you what you want to believe.